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basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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The kidnapping, which didn't happen in Gaza, ...
Was committed by Hamas. When Israel tried to search for the murdered kids and the perpetrators, Hamas used it as an excuse to launch hundreds of terror rockets from Gaza. Even HRW says those rockets are weapons of terror and Israel needed to do something to stop them and Israel went to massive lengths to minimize civilian casualties. Do you even think for a moment how things would have been different if Hamas wasn't hiding in the civilian population or (egad) considered peace with Israel instead of vowing its destruction.


And it seems like you are finally accepting that Hamas is a terrorist group.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Was committed by Hamas. When Israel tried to search for the murdered kids and the perpetrators,
If you recall, Netanyahu knew the fate of the kidnapped kids but kept it a secret so he could use the kidnapping as a pretext for slaughtering Gaza.
This was all Netanyahu's choice, and this war and its crimes are now under investigation at the ICC.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-bolster-international-criminal-court-inquiry
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...a-war-crimes-inquiry-prosecutor-idUSKCN0YP1CT
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-provides-icc-with-information-on-2014-gaza-war/

You are backing war crimes here, state terrorism.
 

basketcase

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If you recall, Netanyahu knew the fate of the kidnapped kids....
Holy shit. You refuse to blame the Hamas guys who kidnapped, murdered, and burnt the kids and refuse to blame Hamas and the other factions who launched hundreds of terror rockets but instead you try and blame Netanyahu (for something that none of your articles mention).

And your insane bias against everything Israel is showing again. Instead of congratulating Israel for cooperating with the ICC you continue backing the destructive agenda of Hamas.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Holy shit. You refuse to blame the Hamas guys who kidnapped, murdered, and burnt the kids and refuse to blame Hamas and the other factions who launched hundreds of terror rockets but instead you try and blame Netanyahu (for something that none of your articles mention).

And your insane bias against everything Israel is showing again. Instead of congratulating Israel for cooperating with the ICC you continue backing the destructive agenda of Hamas.
Its unclear whether Hamas committed the kidnapping and very uncertain whether it was something they planned. If you find concrete evidence then you should send it to Israel and they can lay charges.
https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...9-11-in-1999&p=5962912&viewfull=1#post5962912

I have a bias against apartheid, but that could be rectified through the application of Canadian values like equal rights.
Oh, and rogue states that sell weapons to despotic and genocidal nations, I don't like that either.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/...arms-trade-rogue-regimes-171022100816302.html

Do you?
 

basketcase

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Its unclear whether Hamas committed the kidnapping...
And once again you ignore facts to pretend Hamas aren't terrorists.

A senior Hamas leader has said the group carried out the kidnapping and killing of three Israeli teens in the West Bank in June — the first time anyone from the Islamic militant group has said it was behind an attack that helped spark the current war in the Gaza Strip.

Saleh Arouri told a conference in Turkey on Wednesday that Hamas's military wing, the al-Qassam Brigades, carried out what he described as a "heroic operation" with the broader goal of sparking a new Palestinian uprising.

"It was an operation by your brothers from the al-Qassam Brigades," he said, saying Hamas hoped to exchange the youths for Palestinian prisoners held by Israel.

http://www.npr.org/2014/08/22/342318367/hamas-finally-admits-to-kidnapping-and-killing-israeli-teens

that could be rectified through the application of Canadian values like equal rights
Then why don't you criticize Hamas or the Palestinians who overwhelmingly reject the idea?

Sorry but Hamas is a terrorist entity. I'm willing to side with Canada and the EU when it comes to morals. Same goes when it comes to a solution to the problem being a Two State peace. The official stance of Canada, the EU, the UN, and many other nations (including Israel) is that Two states is the only functional solution.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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And once again you ignore facts to pretend Hamas aren't terrorists.

A senior Hamas leader


Its so boring that you rehash the same claims all the time.
The 'Hamas leader' is living in exile in Turkey and not recognized as a leader.

But a kidnapping inside the West Bank was no reason for Israel to bomb the crap out of Gaza or to 'put it on a diet'.
That's why the ICC is now investigating the attacks.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Its so boring that you rehash the same claims all the time.
The 'Hamas leader' is living in exile in Turkey and not recognized as a leader.

But a kidnapping inside the West Bank was no reason for Israel to bomb the crap out of Gaza or to 'put it on a diet'.
That's why the ICC is now investigating the attacks.
Why do you insist about making up your own version of facts? You know well what happened and it's sad that despite knowing that you are defending the indefensible actions of terrorists, you continue to make up shit.

How do you admit the guy was Hamas while at the same time denying Hamas was responsible?

Israel did not need to go to war because of a kidnapping. They went to war to stop Hamas and other Palestinian factions using the search for the kids as an excuse for launching hundreds of terror rockets at Israeli cities.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Israel did not need to go to war because of a kidnapping. They went to war to stop Hamas and other Palestinian factions using the search for the kids as an excuse for launching hundreds of terror rockets at Israeli cities.
Thank you for admitting that Israel went to war because they wanted to, and not because of the kidnapping.

Which is one of the reasons that the ICC is looking into this attack on Gaza.
On Monday, the ICC Prosecutor’s Office released its annual report, including its second preliminary report on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict regarding alleged war crimes committed by Israelis and Palestinians since June 2014, focused again on Operation Protective Edge in July-August 2014.

Though the document had many similarities with the 2015 report, it notably went out of its way to confirm that ICC Prosecutor Fatou Bensouda views Gaza as legally still “occupied” by Israel for the purposes of her review of the 2014 Gaza war.

That determination could have a massive impact on whether Bensouda takes Israel’s or the Palestinians’ side on borderline laws of war issues as it frames the Palestinians more as the victims. It also makes it more likely that she will view even war-related issues more from the perspective of human rights law than from that of the law of armed conflict. Human rights law perspectives tend to demand more of militaries in avoiding collateral civilian casualties even as all legal paradigms show concern for civilians.
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...stinians-side-despite-Israeli-optimism-472856
 

basketcase

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Thank you for admitting that Israel went to war because they wanted to,...
And another flat out lie and whitewashing of Hamas terrorism.

Hamas and the other factions in Gaza fired hundreds of terror rockets before Israel was forced to take action.
 

basketcase

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Whoops.

If you check the dates, you'll find Israel fired the first rockets, as usual....
Bullshit. The closest you can come to this claim is Hamas admitted no involvement until after some of their members were killed while launching rockets. Then they openly participated in firing hundreds of the terror rockets.

And I know you refuse to discuss it but even HRW considers every one of those rockets to be a terror attack.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Bullshit. The closest you can come to this claim is Hamas admitted no involvement until after some of their members were killed while launching rockets. Then they openly participated in firing hundreds of the terror rockets.

And I know you refuse to discuss it but even HRW considers every one of those rockets to be a terror attack.
Lets just wait for the courts to see who is guilty.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...a-war-crimes-inquiry-prosecutor-idUSKCN0YP1CT

Lets see if Israel abrogated their duty to protect the occupied people in Gaza.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Amazing how you keep refusing to criticize Hamas terrorism, especially since you keep referring to JDL as such.
When Hamas commits terrorism, I'll condemn it.

You just attack anyone critical of Israel, as happens to all journalists as well.
John Lyons arrived in Jerusalem at the beginning of 2009 as The Australian newspaper’s Middle East correspondent. He landed with “great expectations” and stayed for six years.

His posting coincided with a series of regional shockwaves and his memoir includes segments on the Arab uprisings, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and ISIL, but really, Balcony Over Jerusalem centres on his growing and crushing understanding of “how Israel works”.

The balcony of the book’s title is the flat and the platform from which Lyons and his family view the “extraordinary landscape” of the Old City. Initially beguiled by his surroundings, bewilderment and disappointment soon set in.

Lyons documents with great skill the brutal architecture of the occupation and the relentless propaganda that Israel uses to coach and cajole foreign correspondents into reporting on Israel and Palestine matters from Tel Aviv’s point of view. The public relations machine kicks in as soon as Lyons’s appointment is confirmed. The challenge for Israel, he writes, “through its embassies and lobby groups, is how to make sure that foreign journalists do not stop the creeping annexation of the West Bank from continuing. Israel needs to portray itself as the vulnerable one”. He is wined, dined and advised before he leaves Australia.

The charm offensive crumbles after Lyons begins prodding away at the occupation. While Lyons reports what he sees, pro-Israeli advocacy groups seek to discredit him, launching increasingly aggressive and personal attacks upon him. This vitriolic lobby insist that he has been manipulated by Palestinian propagandists.
https://www.thenational.ae/arts-cul...f-israel-s-apartheid-state-in-memoir-1.626764

Lyons also thinks Israel is apartheid, by the way.
So does Nobel winner Desmond Tutu, who suffered through South African apartheid.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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When Hamas commits terrorism, I'll condemn it.....
Except you have spent over two years here refusing to do so. Some of the worst from Hamas during your time here:

Hamas member pretending to have car trouble shoots Israeli who stopped to help - June 2015
Another Hamas drive by kills two parents with their kids in the car - Oct 2015
Two Hamas members killed 2, injured 16 on a commuter bus - Oct 2015
Hamas member sets bomb on bus - April 2016
Hamas member shoots up market and restaurant - June 2016

Plus something like 80 rocket attacks from Gaza that Amnesty and HRW consider war crimes and terrorism.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Except you have spent over two years here refusing to do so. Some of the worst from Hamas during your time here:

Hamas member pretending to have car trouble shoots Israeli who stopped to help - June 2015
Another Hamas drive by kills two parents with their kids in the car - Oct 2015
Two Hamas members killed 2, injured 16 on a commuter bus - Oct 2015
Hamas member sets bomb on bus - April 2016
Hamas member shoots up market and restaurant - June 2016

Plus something like 80 rocket attacks from Gaza that Amnesty and HRW consider war crimes and terrorism.
Post links to these charges and we'll discuss them.
Here's HRW's statement on Israel/Palestine.
Israel enforces severe and discriminatory restrictions on Palestinians’ human rights, and it builds and supports unlawful settlements in the occupied West Bank. Its security forces appear to use excessive force against Palestinian demonstrators and suspected attackers, raising the specter of extra-judicial killings. It has renewed the practice of punitive home demolitions. The Palestinian Authority has arrested students and activists allegedly for their political affiliation or because they expressed criticism. Hamas security forces also engage in torture and ill-treatment of people, including journalists. Israel’s closure of Gaza, supported by Egypt, amounts to collective punishment and has impeded reconstruction.
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2017/country-chapters/israel/palestine

According to HRW, Israel is a far worse human rights abuser then Hamas.
You picked the source, its time for you to admit that Israel is worse the Hamas.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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And since you mentioned Amnesty, here's their statement on Israeli/Palestinian state of affairs.
Israeli forces unlawfully killed Palestinian civilians, including children, in both Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT), and detained thousands of Palestinians from the OPT who opposed Israel’s continuing military occupation, holding hundreds in administrative detention. Torture and other ill-treatment of detainees remained rife and was committed with impunity. The authorities continued to promote illegal settlements in the West Bank, including by attempting to retroactively “legalize” settlements built on private Palestinian land, and severely restricted Palestinians’ freedom of movement, closing some areas after attacks by Palestinians on Israelis. Israeli forces continued to blockade the Gaza Strip, subjecting its population of 1.9 million to collective punishment, and to demolish homes of Palestinians in the West Bank and of Bedouin villagers in Israel’s Negev/Naqab region, forcibly evicting residents. The authorities imprisoned conscientious objectors to military service and detained and deported thousands of asylum-seekers from Africa.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countrie...-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

Once again, Israel tops out as committing way, way more human rights abuses.
You claim to support human rights but here you are backing a country that commits way more human rights crimes then those you criticize.

You picked the sources, now you need to accept what they say.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Post links to these charges and we'll discuss them.....
As usual you will go to disgusting lengths to avoid criticizing Hamas.

From Amnesty:
“Palestinian armed groups, including the armed wing of Hamas, repeatedly launched unlawful attacks during the conflict killing and injuring civilians. In launching these attacks, they displayed a flagrant disregard for international humanitarian law and for the consequences of their violations on civilians in both Israel and the Gaza Strip,” said Philip Luther, Director of the Middle East and North Africa Programme at Amnesty International.

All the rockets used by Palestinian armed groups are unguided projectiles which cannot be accurately aimed at specific targets and are inherently indiscriminate; using such weapons is prohibited under international law and their use constitutes a war crime. Mortars are also imprecise munitions and should never be used to attack military targets located in or near civilian areas.

“Palestinian armed groups must end all direct attacks on civilians and indiscriminate attacks. They must also take all feasible precautions to protect civilians in the Gaza Strip from the effects of such


From HRW:
"Hamas rocket attacks targeting Israeli civilians are unlawful and unjustifiable, and amount to war crimes," said Iain Levine, program director at Human Rights Watch. "As the governing authority in Gaza, Hamas should publicly renounce rocket attacks on Israeli civilian centers and punish those responsible, including members of its own armed wing."
https://www.hrw.org/news/2009/08/06/gaza/israel-hamas-rocket-attacks-civilians-unlawful

And Neither Amnesty nor HRW feel the need to issue a report on Hamas bombings and attacks because every person with even a shred of morals already knows they are terrorism and deplorable.

p.s. Where exactly does HRW say Israel is a "far worse human rights abuser" than Hamas?
 
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