Your post articulates the issue perfectly. You expressed what I only attempted to do in my earlier post. If this board is to continue to be successful, as is proven by the number of advertisers who spend money to promote their business, we need to remember what made it successful in the first place. We should continue to be an open board, and the poll seems to bear this out...
A Question for the membership
- Thread starter Fred Zed
- Start date
Absolutely correct.
And just as you note that there other boards, if the punters here feel its getting too shilly they may go looking for another warmer board.
That's the risk the advertisers take.
And as you say, that's up to them just as its up to us whether or not we stay.
Yes, it IS a chicken and egg debate and won't ever be resolved. Maybe both are equally important?
The perception that non-advertisers are getting a "free ride" is looking at it the wrong way. This board depends upon paid advertising to survive but it also depends upon views. This board (as far as I know) is the oldest and most successful of it's type in this region. It's successful because of the number of posts being put up by members and the number of views. When you start thinking about restricting content then you are automatically talking about eliminating something which drives views. Why would you want to do this? Why would TERB want to risk alienating even a handful of regular viewers for such a minimal gain? Once again, I go back to the stats in the OP. IF those stats are accurate then what possible gain (for advertisers) is there from making a change and restricting content?
And no matter what the Moderators promise - the perception (which is all that matters) WILL be that this is a pay to play board going forward and there will be a perception (rightly or wrongly) that the advertisers have final say on content (including bad reviews). All of this for "1%". Seems incredibly risky to drive viewers (who may from time to time want that 1%) to other boards. Remember - just because it's only 1% of reviews doesn't mean it's only 1% of members who find value in them. It's the old adage: It's hard to get a new customer, less effort to retain them, multiple times harder to win them back once they're lost.
I fail to see how the perception is any different then what it is now. Ask most of the people here and they will tell you advertiser run this boards. That was the what people said 5 years, 10 years ago it is no different.
Do you know the uproar and outrage that happened when TERB chat was removed. How many people where leaving and never coming back? Did some leave? Sure. But as you said TERB is the oldest and most successful board out here. More and more new lads and ladies are coming into the mix. And as they come, they come in a time when the changes where made. They don't know any different and will use TERB like this rule was always in play.
In 6 months from now - there will not be this same uproar and I bet more then 90% of the people bitching here will still be here. I say be thankful that Fred even gave a thread for feedback. I know other boards that would not be so nice or even consider the views of its membership.
ANYONE in mainstream business will tell you that any change is met with negative feedback but that most of the time the change is for the better. They will also tell you the customer is not always right.
Wait and see what happens before getting the panties bunched up. Bring this topic back in 6 months. Seriously. It is not as doom and groom as everything thinks.
I'm outtie now, my old eyes on this small phone screen have said enough.
Having said though, all my comments are just that. My comments. Not to be confused with TERBs point of view and not at all in negating the feelings of others.
You might be right. But my point was it's a risk and a very silly risk to take for minimal gain. Speaking of gain - what IS the gain for advertisers? All they should care about is how effective THEIR ads are. Do they truly believe that their business will increase as a result of this change? That's ludicrous thinking.
Further - go back in history and see the changes in how advertisers communicate with clients. Used to be Yellow Pages. The the Redzone phonelines. NOW magazine. Then review boards started springing up. Now providers are making use of Twitter. The common theme is that customers were being sought and information was being increased.
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Clients of these groups are Terb users - we use Terb to get info on providers. Again payment or lack of payment doesn't matter.
Terb is basically like the yellow pages albeit with more features.
A similar notion is a company that produces a product. It's clients are retailers, the retailers clients are the consumers. Both producer and client will advertise to consumer but producer advertises product, retailer advertises itself as the place to get products.
Clients pay a lady for a service. Ladies are expected to provide amenities but don't have to but guys will bitch about it. I'm sure the expectation would be a slightly lower rate being charged - "No frills". Costs for amenities are built into the rate.
This says it all. I can't believe I'm saying this but it sounds like an issue solely based on principle and nothing more. Unless the 1% is "stealing" a ton of business away from the 99%, this sounds like a waste of time (and this is coming from me).
Terb's clients are providers, spas, and agencies. Terb is a place for them to advertise. The fact that they pay is irrelevant - they are still the clients.
Clients of these groups are Terb users - we use Terb to get info on providers. Again payment or lack of payment doesn't matter.
Terb is basically like the yellow pages albeit with more features.
A similar notion is a company that produces a product. It's clients are retailers, the retailers clients are the consumers. Both producer and client will advertise to consumer but producer advertises product, retailer advertises itself as the place to get products.
Clients pay a lady for a service. Ladies are expected to provide amenities but don't have to but guys will bitch about it. I'm sure the expectation would be a slightly lower rate being charged - "No frills". Costs for amenities are built into the rate.
Perhaps a suggestion should be for members to support ( frequent) the establishments and Indys that support and make this community possible. Not mandatory obviously, but just a suggestion. And honest reviews of your experience whether good or bad are welcomed.
Yes this is a good suggestion. Maybe even have a banner in every section reminding members. It's just worked out that I frequent advertisers only (except Muse - but could have sworn they advertised). That wasn't intentional - just worked out that way (the Advertisers section where they post daily schedules is my usual starting point).
But a reminder to support paid advertisers would be a very positive way to drive behaviour without eroding the open nature of this board. Thumbs up on this.
Personally, i can see and make an argument for both sides. As a paid advertiser i would be upset that when a non advertiser gets mentioned or reviewed, it can be perceived as "leaching", but at the same time its the total content of the site that drives traffic, start limiting content, then you will start limiting traffic. Its a double edged sword. I think this is one topic that will be up to our membership.
I have learned long ago that in business, and life, it is unwise to worry about what the "other guy" gets out of a deal. If *I* am happy with what I get out of a deal or purchase, then that's all that matters. Envy is a waste of energy that could be better directed towards improving one's own interests.
Are you referring to:
1. Members that pay to advertise
2. Members that use the services of paid and unpaid advertisers
3. Both 1 and 2
If number 2 it is quite clear what the results are.
What has been suggested by "Fred Zed" is that any change will not affect any Indy who is not a paid advertiser. There are SP agencies who receive benefit from the reviews on this board and are not paid advertisers here but are spending their advertising dollars elsewhere (it is not cheap to advertise here). Why do they spend elsewhere? They have to because if they don't the mods will have their reviews removed. It is not a coincidence that the biggest offenders of not being a paid agency advertiser are Asian MP's. TERB has numerous reviews in the massage section where it is clear certain individuals are shilling certain agencies. They have been banned under different names before. I don't understand why the mods here don't ban them again. It is easy to connect the dots. Instead the agencies have these individuals promote them without having to pay anything, well at least not to owner of the review board.
I hear others mention integrity of the board if they only allow reviews for paid advertisers. I am sure the majority of guys here would not allow non paying agencies to have reviews posted here if they were the owners of the site , especially when it is known agencies employ others to promote their agencies for free and worse, write negative reviews for agencies that advertise here. Where is the integrity in that. Frankly the owners have better things to do than scour every review and comment here. Make it easy and just don't allow non advertisers to post reviews here. This is done elsewhere.
Wow ok looks like the membership has spoken. We will leave the forum as it is, wide open to everyone. Thank you to all that gave feedback, it is very much appreciated. Everyone have a happy thanksgiving
Thumbs up to the Terb Admin for asking the question in the first place!
Also feel that the paid advertisers have absolutely nothing to worry about from the odd review of non-advertisers. The well run or well reviewed agencies and providers will continue to thrive. Good ads from good agencies/MPAs/independents will continue to drive member traffic to your websites which will result in booked appointments. The shill reviews for non-paid will continue to be exposed and the minority that are good, non-paying providers will grow their businesses as a result of exposure and they will likely see the benefit of joining the list of paid Terb advertisers. Win win.
Also feel that the paid advertisers have absolutely nothing to worry about from the odd review of non-advertisers. The well run or well reviewed agencies and providers will continue to thrive. Good ads from good agencies/MPAs/independents will continue to drive member traffic to your websites which will result in booked appointments. The shill reviews for non-paid will continue to be exposed and the minority that are good, non-paying providers will grow their businesses as a result of exposure and they will likely see the benefit of joining the list of paid Terb advertisers. Win win.
Based on what I saw on Twitter, Muse advertised here up until they got an email announcing that the change to posting rules was happening, then they withdrew their advertising in protest.
This is where I see an issue, with as they say, "the usual suspects" shilling and bumping the shill or otherwise, reviews to the top. In this case I see that a heavy hand needs to come down on the players with deletions and bannings, the likes you've never seen before (insert mother of all and biblical for reference).
As far as SPs go, I think it's an important community service to keep the unpaid advertisers area, which is the Backpage and classifieds area. Here's where the brethren find out about how bad it is out in these playing fields, which helps educate newer members to the scamming and poor service that is out there. This in turn leads them to the Agencies and Paid advertisers (Indies) which are the most reliable.
No. They have not paid to advertise here in quite a while. Beginning of the year or so. We kept their banners up in good faith hoping that they would eventually settle their account, but they did not. It had nothing to do with the posting change . I wont get into it publicly. Its not our style. We wish them all the best, they were long time supporters of this community.
