Sweden: Riots erupt in Stockholm neighborhood

[basketcase]

Nope. Because it's my contention that the religion needs a Reformation. A moderation of the Old Testament type stuff. ...

As I've said before, Islam doesn't need a reformation because it is and always has been based on grassroots prayer. There is no need for a major conference or council, no need to nail demands to a door. All it requires is individuals to pray or join a mosque that pushes the values they support (or choose to attend none). Unlike Christianity, Islam doesn't even have a requirement for prayer t happen at a mosque or under supervision of a cleric.

The Catholic Church has seen a major drop in attendance in North America as people who found the Church values incompatible with their own beliefs left. I'm sure the same can be said about every religion in Canada and it is/will happen with Islam.

Yes, in other countries there are Muslims who have official sway and push a version that doesn't suit North American values. There are also countries that push less tolerant versions of Christianity, etc, and even atheism. As you stated, the issue isn't with Muslims coming to Canada because the vast majority are coming here to become a part of Canada, not turn Canada into their old countries.

I do agree with you about prayer in school though. I could see it reasonable if a school allows Muslim (or Christian) students to pray in their spare time but I find it wrong to sanction organized prayer (not only because of the exclusionary nature of it). But it is not just Muslims pushing for religion is public life. The pro-life movement is just one example.

 

[basketcase]

Maybe there would be no riots if the Swedes volunteer to be slaves.

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.co...million-non-muslim-slaves-of-all-skin-colors/

[h=1]"The Arab slave trade: 200 million non-Muslim slaves from all colors and nationalities"[/h]

Back to the asinine claims that slavery is a Muslim thing.

 

[Frankfooter]

Nope. Because it's my contention that the religion needs a Reformation. A moderation of the Old Testament type stuff. And that's exactly what my friends have voluntarily done. Chosen to remove the worst from their lives and beliefs and are happy to break bread with an Atheist like me. And calmly debate issues.

So this argument is not based on the Muslims you know but hypothetical Muslims you read about on breitbart or infowars?

They sound like the Muslims I know and have met, by the way.
There are religious extremists of every religion in this country, but they are by far the minority.

 

[Galseigin]

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/21/europe/sweden-stockholm-riots/

They're everywhere..

Maryland Mosque Memorializes Islamist Assassin

A celebration was held at a mosque in Pikesville for Mumtaz Qadri who killed a Pakistani governor critical of the country's heinous blasphemy laws.

A mosque in Maryland held a celebration in honor of an Islamist assassin who killed a governor in Pakistan for speaking about against the country’s heinous blasphemy laws.
As reported by Rabwah Times, the Gulzar E. Madina Mosque in Pikesville, Maryland, hosted an Urs celebration, a traditional commemoration reserved for saints and holy people, for Mumtaz Qadri who killed the governor of Punjab province Salman Taseer in 2011.
Qadri was Taseer’s bodyguard and was incensed that Taseer called for the reform of Pakistan’s controversial blasphemy laws. Taseer had also expressed support for Asia Bibi, a Christian woman framed for blasphemy, arrested and sentenced to death in Pakistan.

Blasphemy laws in Pakistan, which carry the death penalty, are often used to exact revenge against Pakistan’s mistreated minority populations. Often, just the hint of a blasphemy accusation will spark mob violence resulting in death for the person charged.
After Qadri shot Taseer to death, he was lauded as a national hero. More than 100,000 people attended his funeral and riots ensued for weeks after he was arrested, tried and hanged for his crime. He is viewed as a saint by a large sector of the population and a shrine is being built in Pakistan to memorialize him.
The Urs event at the Maryland mosque was advertised in the Urdu Times, the largest Urdu newspaper in the U.S. Rabwah Times reported a robust turnout, with participants including young children and teenagers.

The speakers included Syed Saad Ali, an Islamic scholar based in New Jersey, who chastised the crowd, saying:

“Warrior Mumtaz Qadri kissed the noose in love for Prophet Mohammed When Qadri was in jail for five years. What did we do? What effort did we make (for his release? Why did we not go where he was being held? Qadri did everything for us and for the love of Islam and we could not even stand by him? People say Islam teaches peace…..I say Islam teaches us ghairat (honor). Who will now stand up?”
Ali also praised another killer, Tanveer Ahmad, a British-Pakistani man who stabbed to death Asad Shah, another British-Pakistani in Scotland. Shah, from the Ahmadi sect, made posts on social media that Ahmad deemed blasphemous.
Speaking about Ahmad, Ali said,

“Our warrior Tanveer, who is sitting in a jail in Scotland, I don’t know if someone knows or not, when that Mirzai (Ahmadi) spoke his ‘sacrilegious rubbish,’ he went there and stabbed him 27 times, and the police arrested him and right now he is in a jail in Scotland. So if we just take a step forward, angels will automatically come for our help. But what Mumtaz Qadri has done is something amazing, he has surpassed all these warriors.”
Another speaker, Baltimore-based Imam Ijaz Hussain, stated, “Mumtaz Qadri was not a terrorist and whoever says, “We are with you O Prophet” cannot be a terrorist.”
Hussain praised the American system of free speech, saying it allowed events such as these to be held:

“We have some freedoms here (in the U.S.) which we do not even have in other Muslim countries. This is the beauty of this country. There are some countries where we can’t even praise the prophet, we can’t celebrate the Day of Imam Hussain. This country has freedom of religion, and this is the beauty of this country.”

http://m.clarionproject.org/news/maryland-mosque-memorializes-islamist-assassin

 

[Smallcock]

Westerners are ignorant to the brutal tribal irrational mindset that governs daily life in non-western alien cultures. Opening the door to mass immigration from these places is literally opening Pandora's box.

 

[Butler1000]

So this argument is not based on the Muslims you know but hypothetical Muslims you read about on breitbart or infowars?

They sound like the Muslims I know and have met, by the way.
There are religious extremists of every religion in this country, but they are by far the minority.

No. The difference is in our immigration policy and where they are from. My friends are Indian Muslims. Not radicalized or from the same restrictive cultures like the ME. And they came here BECAUSE to the culture here.

The refugees are fleeing war. But that doesn't mean they want to live like us.

 

[K Douglas]

So this argument is not based on the Muslims you know but hypothetical Muslims you read about on breitbart or infowars?

They sound like the Muslims I know and have met, by the way.
There are religious extremists of every religion in this country, but they are by far the minority.

Please show me religious extremists of Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Shintoism, Sikhism who guided planes into buildings killing 2.700 people. Or set off 4 suicide bombs in one day killing 3,000 people (Yazidi region of Iraq). Or massacred 300+ school children (Beslan). 8 of the 10 worst terrorist incidents in history were perpetrated by Islamic extremists. Virtually every terrorist incident in the past 30 years has been perpetrated by radical Islam. You are being ASTONISHINGLY dishonest by equating religious extremists across religion type.

 

[K Douglas]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...e-scale-immigration-crime-sweden-five-charts/

Donald Trump's comments about Sweden over the past few days have sparked international debate.

In his initial comments on the topic Trump referred to a refugee terrorist incident - no such incident took place - before making a wider point about the success of immigration in the country and a perceived rising crime rate. onald Trump's comments about Sweden over the past few days have sparked international debate.

In his initial comments on the topic Trump referred to a refugee terrorist incident - no such incident took place - before making a wider point about the success of immigration in the country and a perceived rising crime rate. Sweden has been very welcoming to immigrants over the past decade, with 163,000 people entering the country in 2016 - 100,000 more than the number who did so in 2000.

While immigrants from EU countries have more than doubled over this 17-year period, the biggest increases have been in people coming to Sweden from Africa and Asia.

Figures from Statistics Sweden show that 76,145 immigrants from Asian countries came to Sweden in 2016, more than five times the number who came from Asia in 2000. Immigration from African countries has increased by even more than this, however, just 18,000 immigrants came from Africa last year.

Sweden's approach to refugees has been similarly welcoming, with the country receiving 162,877 applications for asylum in 2015 - a record number.

More than half of these refugees came from war-torn countries such as Syria (51,000) and Iraq (20,000) - and they include a very large number of unaccompanied children.

This generous approach to refugees was halted mid-way through 2016 when the Swedish Parliament voted by 240 to 45 to toughen the rules around asylum to ease the burden on the Swedish welfare system.

This rule-change has seen a big drop in asylum applications to Sweden with numbers down by 82 per cent between 2016 and 2015.
Integration not crime is the issue facing Swedes

Sweden's crime rates are typically low compared with other nations and - contrary to Trump's belief - there hasn't been a refugee-driven crime wave in recent years.

In fact, the latest figures show that the rate of crimes against life and health have actually decreased in recent years.

However, doesn't mean that the large recent influx of immigrants has been without issue.

Sweden's population of just under 10 million is small compared to the number of people it has accepted - consequently it has one of the highest rates of immigration in Europe.

Integrating this level of migrants into the general population is an ongoing issue in Sweden, with a recent YouGov poll showing that Swedes think the most pressing issue currently facing their country is immigration and refugee policy.

Employment rates among the native-born population are far higher than among those born abroad, with only the Netherlands experiencing more inequality in this regard according to the OECD.

The same is true of the proportion of Swedes living in relative poverty. More than one in four Swedes living in immigrant households are currently in poverty while the figure is 15.4 per cent for those living in native-born households.

While these tensions haven't resulted in an explosion of crime, the problems are bubbling away under the surface and the far-right Swedish Democrats are gaining more support ahead of the 2018 election.

The Telegraph is being dishonest by cherry picking numbers over a short time frame. Yes violent crime fell from 2010 to 2015 but since 2000 it has risen quite significantly 34% higher in 2015 than it was in 2000. A large part of that increase is rape largely committed by Muslim immigrants. Sweden started accepting large numbers of Muslims in the mid to late 1990's mostly from Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Somalia. About 5% of their population is Muslim. And about 3/4 of them are on social assistance. They have not assimilated into Swedish culture much like the Muslim populations of many other European countries. Mark Steyn warned of these problems in his 2006 book America Alone. Scary stuff.

 

[SkyRider]

[h=1]"Riots in Stockholm: Symptom of unjust and racist society we call Sweden"[/h]http://anticapitalists.org/2013/05/30/riots-in-stockholm/

No doubt we can expect more riots in Sweden.

 

[oldjones]

Yes. I do. Some come to my Christmas party and drink up my scotch. I'm meeting with a group of friends including some Muslims on Saturday(IT crowd) for drinks and the game at a bar.

And I like them a lot. And they agree with me.

And I didn't say they couldn't lobby. Just that the concept of feeling the need for religious law is aberrant. And wrong.

So I am aberrant to feel the need for loving my neighbour as myself, or doing unto others as I would have them do unto me? And wrong to believe those tenets would benefit the entire community I am part of and wrong to urge that our laws better reflect them? Please clarify. Explain how your democracy works, where anyone can lobby, but only as long as they're not advocating what you don't believe in.

Clearly your guests reflect your understanding that not all who might carry a label are the same, it would certainly improve the discussion if your statements reflected that better. Perhaps you might give folks like the advocates for sharia similar room for imperfectly expressing themselves.

They're just one small group (like your guests and friends). They are not 'all Muslims', and as we humans figured out long ago, the harm isn't in the ask.

 

[Butler1000]

So I am aberrant to feel the need for loving my neighbour as myself, or doing unto others as I would have them do unto me? And wrong to believe those tenets would benefit the entire community I am part of and to lobby to make our laws better reflect them? Please clarify. Explain how your democracy works where anyone can lobby, but only as long as they're not advocating what you don't believe in.

Clearly your guests reflect your understanding that not all who might carry a label are the same, it would certainly improve the discussion if your statements reflected that better. Perhaps you might give folks like the advocates for sharia some leeway for imperfectly expressing themselves, and jump on them a tad less harshly.

They aren't all Muslims, and as we figured out long ago, the harm isn't in the ask.

What you are advocating for are universal truisms that cross religion and are the hopes of all decent human beings.

But religious law has no place in secular law. It doesn't belong in criminal or civil legislation.

I've referred to this in the past as the difference between Ethics and Morals.

Ethics are universal and the means by which human beings can create functioning societies. It covers things like don't steal, don't kill, don't lie.

Morals on the other hand are the personal choices people make to define their own existance. This can cover prayer times and requirements, dietary laws, modesty restrictions and the like.

And while an ethic can and usually is a moral, the reverse is not true. Morals are not ethics.

Ethics need to be codified and equal. Morals should be personal and excluded from secular law because to do otherwise is to lend weight to what should be personal choices.

That's my opinion anyway.

 

[oldjones]

What you are advocating for are universal truisms that cross religion and are the hopes of all decent human beings.

But religious law has no place in secular law. It doesn't belong in criminal or civil legislation.

I've referred to this in the past as the difference between Ethics and Morals.

Ethics are universal and the means by which human beings can create functioning societies. It covers things like don't steal, don't kill, don't lie.

Morals on the other hand are the personal choices people make to define their own existance. This can cover prayer times and requirements, dietary laws, modesty restrictions and the like.

And while an ethic can and usually is a moral, the reverse is not true. Morals are not ethics.

Ethics need to be codified and equal. Morals should be personal and excluded from secular law because to do otherwise is to lend weight to what should be personal choices.

That's my opinion anyway.

Trouble is ethics and morals overlap and can never be perfectly separated. That's why we must keep talking and debating, to find the compromises and boundaries, Simply attaching labels to the 'other' side, and broad brushing them all only makes the discussion impossible, and any perceived dangers all the more inevitable.

And who are you to presume to tell me those are universal truisms? Who made you judge and jury of what is good and universal? They are Mine, and exclusive to Myreligion which I am engaged in a holy struggle to spread across the world. They will make it better for all, not just hopeful, decent humans.

Tell me I'm wrong. Explain why I mustn't do so. The same way Muslims mustn't ask for sharia law, or try to spread what they believe to be good and true for all, please.

 

[mandrill]

Westerners are ignorant to the brutal tribal irrational mindset that governs daily life in non-western alien cultures. Opening the door to mass immigration from these places is literally opening Pandora's box.

There is no "mass immigration" into Canada. Immigrants are individually assessed and chosen. That's why there have been few incidents of religious bigotry from immigrants into Canada.

 

[mandrill]

No. The difference is in our immigration policy and where they are from. My friends are Indian Muslims. Not radicalized or from the same restrictive cultures like the ME. And they came here BECAUSE to the culture here.

The refugees are fleeing war. But that doesn't mean they want to live like us.

In my personal experience, Middle Easterners are not necessarily restrictive or bigoted.

 

[mandrill]

Please show me religious extremists of Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Shintoism, Sikhism who guided planes into buildings killing 2.700 people. Or set off 4 suicide bombs in one day killing 3,000 people (Yazidi region of Iraq). Or massacred 300+ school children (Beslan). 8 of the 10 worst terrorist incidents in history were perpetrated by Islamic extremists. Virtually every terrorist incident in the past 30 years has been perpetrated by radical Islam. You are being ASTONISHINGLY dishonest by equating religious extremists across religion type.

How about white, western secular terrorism based on Far Right principles? Like Dylan Roof? Or Alexandre Bissonette?

Or this guy?

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...-india-killing-one/ar-AAnhIBW?ocid=spartandhp

A 51-year-old**man faces first-degree murder charges after shooting three men in an Olathe, Kan., bar Wednesday night, police say, reportedly telling two of them, local Garmin engineers from India, to “get out of my country.”
One of the Indian men, Srinivas**Kuchibhotla, 32, died in the hospital later from his gunshot wounds.
Authorities would not classify the shooting as a hate crime, but federal law enforcement officials said Thursday they are investigating with local police to determine if it was “bias motivated.”
Adam W. Purinton, 51, of Olathe, was also charged with two counts of attempted first-degree murder for shooting two other patrons at Austin’s Bar and Grill: Alok Madasani, 32, of Overland Park, Kan. and 24-year-old Ian Grillot of Grandview, Kan., who tried to intervene.

 

[Butler1000]

In my personal experience, Middle Easterners are not necessarily restrictive or bigoted.

And in mine I've met Christians from Lebanon who treated their daughters like subservient trash. The ME is the worst for Misogyny. Including some of the Orthodox Jewish population.

But it's so much more codified in the Koran mainly because Islam is a much a political system as religion. That's the point I'm making. It's all wrapped up together.

Say what you want about the past, and some interference creeping in occasionally, but the separation of church and state is a liberal democratic value. But to any but the most liberal muslims the state and church are one in the same. And to try to divide them is in and of itself cause for jihad.

And that's not idle speculation. That's proven fact in any Muslim majority nation.

 

[Butler1000]

Trouble is ethics and morals overlap and can never be perfectly separated. That's why we must keep talking and debating, to find the compromises and boundaries, Simply attaching labels to the 'other' side, and broad brushing them all only makes the discussion impossible, and any perceived dangers all the more inevitable.

And who are you to presume to tell me those are universal truisms? Who made you judge and jury of what is good and universal? They are Mine, and exclusive to Myreligion which I am engaged in a holy struggle to spread across the world. They will make it better for all, not just hopeful, decent humans.

Tell me I'm wrong. Explain why I mustn't do so. The same way Muslims mustn't ask for sharia law, or try to spread what they believe to be good and true for all, please.

Did you read my post. I specifically stated that a moral can be an ethic. And usually is. But an ethic isn't a moral.

One is personal choice. An individual choosing to live a certain way. An ethic is the common laws and means by which humans can live togther and not end up killing eachother. Like I said it's common things like don't kill steal, lie that are the basis for about 99% of the laws we have. And every culture has or develops.

Big difference.

 

[oldjones]

Did you read my post. I specifically stated that a moral can be an ethic. And usually is. But an ethic isn't a moral.

One is personal choice. An individual choosing to live a certain way. An ethic is the common laws and means by which humans can live togther and not end up killing eachother. Like I said it's common things like don't kill steal, lie that are the basis for about 99% of the laws we have. And every culture has or develops.

Big difference.

What we agree on, we make into laws. What we hope we agree on, are the shared, uncodified moral values we call ethics. What I know in my heart to be right are my morals. They all overlap.

When I tell you what I think our laws should be, I am expressing my moral values. If yours align, we share a common ethical principles and we can go on to make a law to compel others who do not share it. But our agreement, or disagreement begins with one of us voicing their personal moral standards. Shutting off any voice because you have decided it comes from a religion and expresses ethics derived from it is entirely contrary to the agreed ethical standards (some of them legislated) of our democracy.

Everyone has a right to their religious belief. Everyone has a right to express their moral standards, whether religious based or not, and advocate for it and for its acceptance, in the range from personal moral to the compulsion of law.

There's nothing immoral, or unethical or illegal about anyone advocating for any system of behaviour based in religion or not. That includes Muslims advocating for sharia.

And it includes me trying to get you to believe in my Golden Rule because you must accept Myreligion, not some 'universal' already in your ethics. But no one gets to compel anyone to their personal moral code, except by obtaining general agreement.

And it's untrue to say 'all' Muslims, or indeed any Muslims attempted to do so in the matter of sharia.

 

[mandrill]

And in mine I've met Christians from Lebanon who treated their daughters like subservient trash. The ME is the worst for Misogyny. Including some of the Orthodox Jewish population.

But it's so much more codified in the Koran mainly because Islam is a much a political system as religion. That's the point I'm making. It's all wrapped up together.

Say what you want about the past, and some interference creeping in occasionally, but the separation of church and state is a liberal democratic value. But to any but the most liberal muslims the state and church are one in the same. And to try to divide them is in and of itself cause for jihad.

And that's not idle speculation. That's proven fact in any Muslim majority nation.

Here's your response. Written far better than I could do.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/02/rumana-ahmed-trump/517521/

 

[Galseigin]

Sweden: Iraqi immigrant Rapist sentenced for smuggling of narcotics avoids deportation.
Jihadi Justin, removed the law that allowed the government to strip passport from dual citizens convicted of crimes of terrorism, treason or espionage against Canada, or took up arms against Canada. Duh


A 33-year-old immigrant from Iraq, was sentenced in 2009 to prison for having committed a rape against a young mother is Swedish. Now he has been sentenced to prison again after authorities uncovered a drug tangle with branches in the Netherlands.
In 2010 sentenced the 33-year-old Iraqi, along with another man, for assault, trespassing and vandalism in a case where two Swedish women were victims. The crimes took place in 2008. The punishment was imprisonment for two months and several thousand in damages to two women.

The following year sentenced 33-year-old again - this time to two years and four months in prison and damages of just over SEK 85,000 for the rape of a Swedish mother of small children. The rape took place August 22, 2009 at the Body measure in Sjuntorp in an apartment. The judgment says that the 33-year-old had sexual intercourse with the woman, even though she asked him to stop and she did not want. By using their body weight and stick woman's hands and legs, he performed a complete vaginal intercourse through violence.

A few weeks ago appeared the latest verdict against the 33-year-old repeat offender at the Solna District Court. He was sentenced for aggravated drug trafficking and attempted aggravated drug offenses to prison for six years.

The two accused drug cronies also convicted of involvement in the drug tangle. A 43-year old man from the Netherlands sentenced to five years in prison for smuggling of narcotics attempted aggravated drug offenses. A 24-year-old compatriot of Iraqi punished by two years in prison for complicity in attempted aggravated drug offenses.

Although the three are convicted of serious crimes, only 43-year-old from the Netherlands who also sentenced to expulsion.

When we call the Tax Agency to find out about the 33-year-old Swedish citizen, we end up at a dead end.

- There is a person with protected personal data, says a female officer.

- I see nothing, she clarifies.

According to the Court, it is only 43-årigen from the Netherlands to date has appealed to the Court of Appeal.

https://translate.google.com/transl...rov-narkotikasmuggling-slipper-utvisning-igen