TSB Closes Investigation into Porter/UFO Near Hit

[GameBoy27]

As I suspected, we'll probably never know...

For the foreseeable future, the object that nearly hit a Porter Airlines flight from Ottawa to Toronto on the morning of November 14 will remain, literally, an "unidentified flying object."

The Transportation Safety Board says it has closed its investigation into the incident, which say the pilot take evasive maneuvers 8,300 feet in the air, as the flight approached Toronto's Billy Bishop Airport.

"We've assessed all of the information gathered and decided to classify this occurrence as a Class 5 Occurrence," TSB spokesperson Chris Krepski tells CFRA. "This means that a summary of validated facts will be added to our database for statistical and trend analysis, but no further investigation for formal report will be produced by the TSB."

Krepski says the TSB was unable to positively identify the object.

"What we do know," Krepski says, "is that the description and size of the object does not match any known commercial or consumer unmanned aerial vehicle, or UAV. The occurrence location, which is 10 miles from the shore at 8,300 feet is beyond the range capabilities of most commercial and consumer level UAVs."

Krepski says if further information comes to light they'll assess it and see if any further action on the TSB's part is warranted.

"We weren't able to positively identify the object, so for now it's a closed event," Krepski says. "But if something comes up in the future, we'll take a look at it."

The incident happened around 7:30 a.m. Monday, November 14. Two flight attendants suffered minor injuries as the plane swerved to avoid the object, but none of the 54 passengers aboard the flight were hurt.

TSB Senior Regional Investigator Peter Rowntree told CFRA's Ottawa Now with Evan Solomon the pilots only had "a couple of seconds" to react after seeing the object.

http://www.iheartradio.ca/580-cfra/news/tsb-closes-investigation-into-near-collision-involving-porter-flight-and-ufo-1.2221328

 

[whitewaterguy]

Clearly a need to equip planes with dashcams

 

[GameBoy27]

Clearly a need to equip planes with dashcams

I thought the exact same thing.

 

[fuji]

I thought the exact same thing.

And devices to triangulate the location of radio transmitters so that police can identify the suspects who were controlling the drone. Also devices to pinpoint the location of green lasers and the like

 

[SchlongConery]

And devices to triangulate the location of radio transmitters so that police can identify the suspects who were controlling the drone. Also devices to pinpoint the location of green lasers and the like

Yeah, that is a good use of taxpayer money! lol You watch too many TV shows!

Psssst.... there was no drone.

So nothing to triangulate.

 

[fuji]

Yeah, that is a good use of taxpayer money! lol You watch too many TV shows!

Psssst.... there was no drone.

So nothing to triangulate.

Who said anything about taxpayer money?

We are talking about commercial aviation.

 

[FAST]

Yeah, that is a good use of taxpayer money! lol You watch too many TV shows!

Psssst.... there was no drone.

So nothing to triangulate.

Yep, just a figment of the pilots imagination.

FAST

 

[SchlongConery]

Yep, just a figment of the pilots imagination.

FAST

I didn't say that.

Pilots seeing things in the sky that they don't expect, can't identify and take evasive action on account of have been experienced for decades before "drones" existed.

Funny thing about this is that you seem to just want to argue that it was, or could have been, a drone, despite the incredibly high improbability of such an encounter. It really is sadly laughable because you really think you are being so smart. Reminds me of the attention seeking kid in school who, when learning basic arithmetic, was taught that 2+2 equals 4, argued that the answer could also be 22. The teacher and rest of the class would groan and roll their eyes, but this guy who everyone had in their class would just plow on and dig himself deeper.

Although I have never flown for a living, I hold both Canadian and US Commercial, Multi-engine, IFR, Land and Sea pilots licenses. I have flown all over North America for over 4000 hours in 25+ years as PIC in 28 aircraft models, and type ratings in 3, including the Cessna CE500 twin jet. I am also a licensed A&P / AME (fancy names for aircraft mechanic). I hold 3 STC's for approved modifications to single engine aircraft that still pay me licensing fees. I have been involved as a consultant in 7 aircraft accident investigations and have authored a dozen magazine articles on pilot decision making.

So I KNOW wtf I am talking about when it comes to flying and flying machines.

So in my considered opinion the probability that there was a civillian drone out there is almost nil. Just as the Transportation Safety Board investigators have stated.

But you know better!

 

[SchlongConery]

Who said anything about taxpayer money?

We are talking about commercial aviation.

How exactly do you figure "commercial aviation" is going to install and manage a network of wifi band sensors that could triangulate the position of a particular drone remote control?

And on what authority would "commercial aviation" be ordered to incur such a cost?

You watch too much TV. I don't think you have any idea of the complexity and cost, never mind the technical feasibility of such a fantasy. The US FAA have been developing and implementing a system to better locate aircraft. It is called ADS-B and has gradually been implemented over the past 15 years or so. It is intended to be fully implemented by 2020. We use it a bit here in Canada.

The big problem with these systems is cost. The airline and commercial operators whine about the cost and lobby government to delay implementation on just about everything. And ADS-B has a myriad of operational benefits and functions including datalinked weather and direct aircraft to aircraft data communications. Yet, they resist.

So the idea that "commercial aviation" will create a network to identify drone pilot locations is ridiculous.


Idon'tthinkyouhave

 

[fuji]

How exactly do you figure "commercial aviation" is going to install and manage a network of wifi band sensors that could triangulate the position of a particular drone remote control?

You misunderstood my suggestion. The plane itself should carry instruments recording data on radio signals on the frequencies that operate drones. Record that data to the black box so it can be used by police investigating dangerous operation of a drone. The actual triangulation can be performed with software from the captured radio data, the plane just needs to capture and store the readings.

You don't need multiple stations. Since the plane itself is moving fast three readings taken a few seconds apart will be enough to triangulate on the source of the signal, and the plane could easily capture dozens of readings from different locations as it is flying past the transmitter.

It's a few dollars extra equipment that would need to be added to the avionics system. Retrofitting it into older planes might be costly but if Boeing and Airbus started including it in new planes eventually it's going to be in enough planes to arrest some of these culprits.

 

[SchlongConery]

Sorry fuji but with all due respect to your good intentions, the technical issues are way more significant than it would seem. And, again on the basis of cost and certification issues. commercial aircraft are not going to get equipped with such devices even if they were technically feasible. And for what purpose and risk? They would do nothing to mitigate risk and would serve only as a data source for civilian LE. The logistal issues of relaying that information are another issue altogether.

Again, you watch too many movies or too much TV!

 

[bishop]

You misunderstood my suggestion. The plane itself should carry instruments triangulating the sources of radio signals on the frequencies that operate drones. Record that data to the black box so it can be used by police investigating dangerous operation of a drone. The actual triangulation can be performed with software from the captured radio data, the plane just needs to capture and store the readings.

You don't need multiple stations. The plane itself is moving and can take enough measurements to triangulate on the source of the signal.

It's s few dollars extra equipment that would need to be added to the avionics system. Retrofitting it into older planes might be costly but if Boeing and Airbus started including it in new planes eventually it's going to be in enough planes to arrest some of these culprits.

Remids me of the movie independance day. How do you stop an alien invasion? Upload a virus to the alien's computer. That was easy, then the end credit rolls by. Guess nobody cares how the fuck you upload a virus into a computer you know jack shit about, so long as it sounds good it will work.

 

[dirkd101]

It sounds like a military UAV, from the altitude they gave and the fact that it was big enough to notice and thus take evasive action to avoid. Those recreational drones are too small and like a bird, they cou;d hit it and move on. Maybe they aren't at liberty to say it is a military UAV, as it could be classified information.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Remids me of the movie independance day. How do you stop an alien invasion? Upload a virus to the alien's computer. That was easy, then the end credit rolls by. Guess nobody cares how the fuck you upload a virus into a computer you know jack shit about, so long as it sounds good it will work.

He he, right. As if an extra-terrestrial mother ship that can travel from light year's away isn't equipped with a highly-advanced anti-virus program, assuming first that its technology uses operating system software that isn't more advanced than our own. Highly unlikely even if we want to speculate.

 

[GPIDEAL]

It sounds like a military UAV, from the altitude they gave and the fact that it was big enough to notice and thus take evasive action to avoid. Those recreational drones are too small and like a bird, they cou;d hit it and move on. Maybe they aren't at liberty to say it is a military UAV, as it could be classified information.

You could be right but assuming it's a U.S. UAV, why can't a Cdn investigative body not be at liberty to admit the possibility that it was?

 

[dirkd101]

You could be right but assuming it's a U.S. UAV, why can't a Cdn investigative body not be at liberty to admit the possibility that it was?

There are many things that go on with regards to the military and in the intelligence community, that we are not aware of. When something does happen, in order to maintain the secrecy around it, they shut down what they can. When dealing with another government body it's quite easy.

 

[GPIDEAL]

There are many things that go on with regards to the military and in the intelligence community, that we are not aware of. When something does happen, in order to maintain the secrecy around it, they shut down what they can. When dealing with another government body it's quite easy.

So it's not like Cdn authorities were told if it was a military UAV from the States, and that they won't speculate either?

 

[SchlongConery]

So it's not like Cdn authorities were told if it was a military UAV from the States, and that they won't speculate either?

The Canadian TSB has a very specific mandate regarding transportation safety. They don't generally play ball with other agencies, least of alla coverup.

So, IF it were a military/intelligence UAV, the TSB would not be so fast to publicly say they didn't believe it to be a UAV. There would be lots of back channel chatter IF the offending agency wanted to cover it up. HIGHLY unlikely the TSB would actively participate by dismissing the UAV angle. And the Investigators would be going apeshit internally to if they were told not to make an issue out of it.

 

[VirginJohn]

UFO's affecting the island airport now. These crazy aliens have to interfere with commercial flights as if they have got nothing better to do than piss against the wall. I thought the aviation department are supposed to have worked out charts to fly away from areas in the sky known to have these UFOs and it was some hidden knowledge. This means they are no longer respecting their boundaries from the previously held agreements and this could be an act of aggression since this is not supposed to be a flight risk like that.

 

[italianguy74]

Its probably a drug shippment from south of the border. A big enough drone could carry pounds of drugs. If it is custom built the range could be hundreds of miles.