Ashley Madison

Wikileaks: The polls are rigged

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Trump certainly wants media coverage, but he doesn't want all that coverage to be negative. That's what he's been getting pretty much uniformly from the entire MSM during this election. The media likes to say "but Trump creates all of these negative stories that dominate his coverage". However, that's not credible. When Trump gives a 45 minute speech about what he will do in his first 100 days, and talks for 4 minutes about suing his accusers, that should not result in coverage that is 100% about suing his accusers. Frankly, I don't even know why the latter is newsworthy. It's a given. His plan for the first 100 days was entirely new campaign material, and should have garnered the majority of coverage of that speech. The analogy would be if I responded to your post by focussing on your silly comment about Trump's pre-nup, instead of the substance of your comments, simply because you mentioned that point. "Promo promoting marital breakup!" "Promo is against keeping families together!" See how easy that is?
Reporters are doing their jobs, they look for the one line that is most likely to get readers to read their articles/papers.
If that line is Trump saying something ridiculous, like he won't abide the results of the election or that he's going to sue all those accusing him of sexual assault then that's going to be the byline.

Its all Trump's doing.
If he could control his message he wouldn't have that problem.
But he can't, he keeps putting his foot in his mouth almost every single day.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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The simple fix is that media should report all the polls, unless they want to make an argument (to their audience) why certain polls should not be considered. Certainly the 24/7 news networks have plenty of time for that content.
Sort of like looking at the RCP national averages instead of just a few polls that post early in the morning?
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
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The simple fix is that media should report all the polls, unless they want to make an argument (to their audience) why certain polls should not be considered. Certainly the 24/7 news network have plenty of time for that content.
Legally mandated reporting? Of precisely what? Who decides what's a required poll? Do we forbid candidates to publish their own polls? Who decides what media is forced to publish only yopur approved stats? What do you mean by all the polls? When AK tells us Trump has a 34% lead because he counted some voters asking for ballots is that a poll every media outlet — Road and Track? New Republic? Buy and Sell? TERB? HBO? — should be forced to publish?

How is required publication of officially approved data anything like free speech or a free press? Its a preposterous and repugnant idea.
 

AK-47

Armed to the tits
Mar 6, 2009
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In the 6
Sort of like looking at the RCP national averages instead of just a few polls that post early in the morning?
RCP excludes quite a few polls from their compilation
 

Bud Plug

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Aug 17, 2001
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Legally mandated reporting? Of precisely what? Who decides what's a required poll? Do we forbid candidates to publish their own polls? Who decides what media is forced to publish only yopur approved stats? What do you mean by all the polls? When AK tells us Trump has a 34% lead because he counted some voters asking for ballots is that a poll every media outlet — Road and Track? New Republic? — should be forced to print?

How is required publication of officially approved data free speech or a free press? Its a preposterous and repugnant idea.
Free press is already subject to reasonable limitations. As an example, they can be sued for libel under a number of circumstances.

No freedom, including freedom of the press, exists in a vacuum. All freedoms have to be reconciled with competing rights, freedoms and obligations that have constitutional stature. The right to free and fair elections is indisputably at that level. Requiring media to justify selective reliance on certain polls to the exclusion of other published polls is a reasonable constraint on freedom of the press.
 

Bud Plug

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Aug 17, 2001
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RCP excludes quite a few polls from their compilation
The RCP average is also comprised of polls released on different days. In this election, where something astonishing has happened so frequently, a day is a lifetime.
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
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The RCP average is also comprised of polls released on different days. In this election, where something astonishing has happened so frequently, a day is a lifetime.
At no time has RCP had Trump in the lead. In this election he's been losing to Clinton at all times.
 

SuperCharge

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Jun 11, 2011
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At no time has RCP had Trump in the lead. In this election he's been losing to Clinton at all times.
Fuji - you know BudPlug has you on ignore right? Why do you insist on trying to quote him and speak with him? Just curious?
 

SuperCharge

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Jun 11, 2011
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I could care less whether he reads my reply, in just correcting misinformation.
so you don't have to quote him, we're all adults here, we can follow eh! Because from looking outside the box, it seems you follow him around just to quote him. That's how it looks anyways
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
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Why wouldn't I quote him? His post was public. If you want to have a private conversation use PM.
Because that would make you a COWARD,...your call fuji,...!!!

Already have one here,...you want to be included,...again your call,...live with it.

FAST
 

fuji

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Because that would make you a COWARD,...your call fuji,...!!!

Already have one here,...you want to be included,...again your call,...live with it.

FAST
Actually the cowards are the ones using ignore to insulate themselves from being confronted with facts.
 

SuperCharge

Banned
Jun 11, 2011
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Correcting misinformation is not childish.
But hold on a second, your information is YOUR opinion doesn't make what you say Fact, just like BudPlug, but your incessant need to continue to reply to someone who has you on ignore and doesn't see what you are saying, is just plain stupid.
 

Bud Plug

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Aug 17, 2001
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But hold on a second, your information is YOUR opinion doesn't make what you say Fact, just like BudPlug, but your incessant need to continue to reply to someone who has you on ignore and doesn't see what you are saying, is just plain stupid.
Supercharge, you are starting to see why you just have to put some people on ignore. Not because they disagree with you, but because they are incapable of a productive exchange.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,486
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Free press is already subject to reasonable limitations. As an example, they can be sued for libel under a number of circumstances.

No freedom, including freedom of the press, exists in a vacuum. All freedoms have to be reconciled with competing rights, freedoms and obligations that have constitutional stature. The right to free and fair elections is indisputably at that level. Requiring media to justify selective reliance on certain polls to the exclusion of other published polls is a reasonable constraint on freedom of the press.
Please don't try to sidestep the issue: Who would certify your politically correct polls and how? All that others stuff you mentioned is stuff we use daily to distinguish truth from fictions. Now you're saying a free press isn't up to the task and 'the media (defined how and by whom) should be required (how and by whom) to publish all the polls, or justify their choice (how and to whom) of those they rely on (who defines 'rely on', how). Oh yeah, first off: What's a poll? What or who determines all the polls someone isn't relying on?

I certainly wouldn't agree with your statement that anything like you've proposed is a reasonable constraint on freedom of the press. Nor has any democratic government I'm aware of. We don't even require the press to publish results or lists of candidates. Elections Canada has to buy the ad space.

The Don would be unlikely to agree; it would constrain him and his adherents from publishing crap polls like the ones I've been complaining about here, this thread being a prime example of misunderstanding and misrepresentation of polls.

Anyone with brains already requires" …media to justify selective reliance on certain polls to the exclusion of other published polls", it's why we've all become aware of phrasing like "…accurate to ±3%, nineteen times out of twenty". That sort of standard qualification has been entirely absent from poll-talk everywhere, except in what I imagine Trumpians would consider mainstream media.

If that constraint of yours is reasonable, I'm sure you'll readily be able to sketch out a simple model of how requiring media to hold to it could work in practice. I look forward to it. If you choose not to respond, so be it, that's always been how we reconcile competing views, by choosing to speak up with ours. Or not.
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,069
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Actually the cowards are the ones using ignore to insulate themselves from being confronted with facts.
NO,...ignore is used in an attempt to be insulated from idiots.

Just what the fuck don't you understand,... that if you know some one will NOT be replying to one of your posts that reply to, comment on or quote one of theirs.

Makes you something less than a man,...in a word,...a COWARD.

If you are comfortable with that title,...says a lot about you,...doesn't it fuji.

But you would be in the same category as the other admitted coward here,...good company you keep.

If you STILL don't understand,...please let me know,...I can help you out.

FAST
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
5,068
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Please don't try to sidestep the issue: Who would certify your politically correct polls and how? All that others stuff you mentioned is stuff we use daily to distinguish truth from fictions. Now you're saying a free press isn't up to the task and 'the media (defined how and by whom) should be required (how and by whom) to publish all the polls, or justify their choice (how and to whom) of those they rely on (who defines 'rely on', how). Oh yeah, first off: What's a poll? What or who determines all the polls someone isn't relying on?

I certainly wouldn't agree with your statement that anything like you've proposed is a reasonable constraint on freedom of the press. Nor has any democratic government I'm aware of. We don't even require the press to publish results or lists of candidates. Elections Canada has to buy the ad space.

The Don would be unlikely to agree; it would constrain him and his adherents from publishing crap polls like the ones I've been complaining about here, this thread being a prime example of misunderstanding and misrepresentation of polls.

Anyone with brains already requires" …media to justify selective reliance on certain polls to the exclusion of other published polls", it's why we've all become aware of phrasing like "…accurate to ±3%, nineteen times out of twenty". That sort of standard qualification has been entirely absent from poll-talk everywhere, except in what I imagine Trumpians would consider mainstream media.

If that constraint of yours is reasonable, I'm sure you'll readily be able to sketch out a simple model of how requiring media to hold to it could work in practice. I look forward to it. If you choose not to respond, so be it, that's always been how we reconcile competing views, by choosing to speak up with ours. Or not.
I'm not sidestepping the issue, you just have the model backwards. If you want to rely on restricted and selective polls, you justify. If not, carry on.

Terrible things always have to happen before the courts revisit the balance of constitutional freedoms and rights. I think we're about to see some terrible things.

Laws are rarely passed to protect people with brains. They are to protect the people with brains from those without.
 
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