Auto Strike

[Occasionally]

Easier for Toyota/Honda to be generous, their plants are MUCH more efficient, as they don't have to put up with the Unifools archaic physiology, that inefficiency creates jobs.

I have spent quite a bit of time in both unionized, and none union, big difference, and attitude.

FAST

FAST. Can you confirm if this is true? I've heard this from one friend.....

US/Canadian union worker attitude: More money, confrontational, lots of dead weight, no obligations to do better

Japanese union worker attitude: More money, less confrontational, more efficient, works with management..... pay us more, and we commit to do this better... win-win

 

[nottyboi]

I think when Detroit went bust all their pension liabilities were reset to zero.

You think WRONG, 5B of the Canadian govt money went DIRECTLY to bail out the pensioners. Maybe we should ask why the rest of Canadians do not get such a generous pension. What a scam.

 

[FAST]

FAST. Can you confirm if this is true? I've heard this from one friend.....

US/Canadian union worker attitude: More money, confrontational, lots of dead weight, no obligations to do better

Japanese union worker attitude: More money, less confrontational, more efficient, works with management..... pay us more, and we commit to do this better... win-win

Can't recall where I read this,...but observing both environments, its obvious which one is more efficient.

FAST

 

[SkyRider]

You think WRONG, 5B of the Canadian govt money went DIRECTLY to bail out the pensioners.

I am shocked that Canadian government money went to bail out City of Detroit pensioners. Hard to believe that is true.

 

[Keebler Elf]

Can't recall where I read this,...

What a surprise.


A simple google search: "General Motors essentially caught Toyota in vehicle assembly productivity." And that was in 2007.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...vity-but-detroit-continues-to-narrow-the-gap/


Anyone who reads FAST's comments needs to do so with the full understanding that he has had terrible personal experiences with unions and therefore he hates them with a passion. That blind hatred biases everything he says.

Do your own research.

 

[Keebler Elf]

Ship all manufacturing to counties with better quality. I'd take German or Japan quality over Canadian hard goods any time.

Nobody is trasferring manufacturing to Germany or Japan. They're not transferring to MORE expensive countries, they're transferring to less.

Manufacturing is moving to Mexico because the labour costs are ridiculously low compared to the rest of North America. Not even minimum wage low. Mexico isn't comparing union to non-union. Even private sector non-union manufacturing can't compete with Mexico. When you're trying to compete with a third world country on labour costs, good luck to you.

Germany and Japan have retained their manufacturing because they manufacture goods that requirement highly skilled workers. They're doing manufacturing the right way, they learned a long time ago that success means producing something your competition can't do easily. Low skilled work is much more easily off-shored. If you want to combat off-shoring, do a better job at training your workforce. Something Canada is terrible at (Gotta keep that Campbells soup plant open!)

Auto plants in the US aren't "stealing" Canadian auto workers' job because they're more productive. They're getting the work via government subsidies at the State level. "Build here and we'll give you tax concessions!" Even with that, Canadian plants are still competitive because of Canadian health care (i.e., no private insurance costs to deal with). There's really no huge competitive advantage to building an auto plant in the US vs. Canada. The advantage is moving to a country where the labour laws are so primitive that you can pay workers an amount of money that you couldn't even live on in the rest of North America. That's globalization. I'm not saying it's good or bad, it just is. In a global economy, you have to compete with countries that have workers willing to work for peanuts. Thus the need to focus on skilled manufacturing that some uneducated, unskilled worker can't do. That's what Canada should be re-focusing our work force on.

Wipe out the unions. See what happens. If you think it's going to be good for the middle class, you're living in a fucking dream world. It's a race to the bottom and people like FAST can't get there "fast" enough.

 

[FAST]

A simple google search: "General Motors essentially caught Toyota in vehicle assembly productivity." And that was in 2007.

The actual text,...according to your car magazine,..."Toyota Leads in Productivity but Detroit Continues to Narrow the Gap,....in 2007,...???
Typical union BS,...way behind the times,...and incorrect.

Automation, and moving production out of Canada can make up for low labour productivity, which is the subject.

Anyone who reads FAST's comments needs to do so with the full understanding that he has had terrible personal experiences with unions and therefore he hates them with a passion. That blind hatred biases everything he says.

Watching your brothers do idiot things,... like sabotage production lines, yep I'm going to be biased against idiots.

Stating facts, is NOT being biased.

And calling your brothers on an assembly line,...middle class,...too funny.

The middle class are those who deserve the wage the earn, because they have a marketable skill,...NOT a wage earned by blackmailing their employer.

FAST

 

[Occasionally]

And calling your brothers on an assembly line,...middle class,...too funny.

The middle class are those who deserve the wage the earn, because they have a marketable skill,...NOT a wage earned by blackmailing their employer.

FAST

And that's what I never understood about union guys.

If they think they are that good, why would any company outsource to some other labour pool in a different country? Every company wants to make money. And the key to making money is selling good products and a good price. If those low skilled lowly paid foreigners are that bad, the products will suck and the company won't outsource ever again. Instead they will keep production in Canada, or the US etc....

But they don't.

The reason is because the companies notice:

1. Lower costs
2. It's still worth the hassle and going through hoops setting up shop in another country and transporting goods 1,000s of KMs away
3. The quality is just as good, or close enough that it won't affect sales

As Keebler said, specialize in some high end stuff which is hard to off-shore. But if a company can't or won't. Or the local workforce can't handle it, then you better brush up your resume because some factory in Mexico is on the door step.

It's just a change in the way jobs are done. If this was 50 years ago, Canada, US and Europe would be firing on all cylinders churning out high grade manufacturing. But now, lots of it gets done in poorer countries because they realize it's cheaper, automation helps things, and richer countries transform to services. For every no-name manufacturing plant that disappears, Canada's big 6 banks make billions of profits both locally and from overseas. For example, TD bank has over 1,000 branches in the US. Who knew.

Or get involved with retailing. Loblaws head office has 4,000 people alone. Even the lowest paid person there (probably some junior analyst out of university) gets paid $40,000 minimum. Get a senior level job and you're making $100,000+ easy.

So ok, Canadian manufacturing may be on the downtrend, but something like banking is on the uptrend.

Sector changes. A blue collar worker gets burned his career path is tough going, but for someone like me who does finances (when I skim job sites), has a gazillion jobs available at banks. Oh well, that's how it goes. If this was 40 years ago, it would be the opposite and a bean counter guy like me would be stuck, while there would be lots of manufacturing. That's how it goes.

You don't see white collar workers complaining. Lots of jobs in finances, sales, marketing, IT, all that internet coding stuff etc....

 

[Frosty]

Yeah, I wish we could privatized the public sector employees. Union workers are already overpaid.

 

[nottyboi]

I am shocked that Canadian government money went to bail out City of Detroit pensioners. Hard to believe that is true.

GM Canada is a separate entity as is its pension plan. The money was taken from Canadian taxpayers and handed to Canadian GM Pensioners.

 

[frankcastle]

Tough to say what the right move is.

Striking is always risky. I mean will the raise or increased benefits balance out the lost wages during the length of a strike? Especially if it goes on for a while.

Picking up and moving is not always that easy as others have pointed out. If it was so much better else where GM would have picked up and left already.

 

[frankcastle]

The actual text,...according to your car magazine,..."Toyota Leads in Productivity but Detroit Continues to Narrow the Gap,....in 2007,...???
Typical union BS,...way behind the times,...and incorrect.

Automation, and moving production out of Canada can make up for low labour productivity, which is the subject.



Watching your brothers do idiot things,... like sabotage production lines, yep I'm going to be biased against idiots.

Stating facts, is NOT being biased.

And calling your brothers on an assembly line,...middle class,...too funny.

The middle class are those who deserve the wage the earn, because they have a marketable skill,...NOT a wage earned by blackmailing their employer.

FAST

That may be your definition of middle class.

 

[james t kirk]

Nobody is trasferring manufacturing to Germany or Japan. They're not transferring to MORE expensive countries, they're transferring to less.

Manufacturing is moving to Mexico because the labour costs are ridiculously low compared to the rest of North America. Not even minimum wage low. Mexico isn't comparing union to non-union. Even private sector non-union manufacturing can't compete with Mexico. When you're trying to compete with a third world country on labour costs, good luck to you.

Germany and Japan have retained their manufacturing because they manufacture goods that requirement highly skilled workers. They're doing manufacturing the right way, they learned a long time ago that success means producing something your competition can't do easily. Low skilled work is much more easily off-shored. If you want to combat off-shoring, do a better job at training your workforce. Something Canada is terrible at (Gotta keep that Campbells soup plant open!)

Auto plants in the US aren't "stealing" Canadian auto workers' job because they're more productive. They're getting the work via government subsidies at the State level. "Build here and we'll give you tax concessions!" Even with that, Canadian plants are still competitive because of Canadian health care (i.e., no private insurance costs to deal with). There's really no huge competitive advantage to building an auto plant in the US vs. Canada. The advantage is moving to a country where the labour laws are so primitive that you can pay workers an amount of money that you couldn't even live on in the rest of North America. That's globalization. I'm not saying it's good or bad, it just is. In a global economy, you have to compete with countries that have workers willing to work for peanuts. Thus the need to focus on skilled manufacturing that some uneducated, unskilled worker can't do. That's what Canada should be re-focusing our work force on.

Wipe out the unions. See what happens. If you think it's going to be good for the middle class, you're living in a fucking dream world. It's a race to the bottom and people like FAST can't get there "fast" enough.

Pretty much spot on in every respect.

I have 3 main beefs with unions.

1 the concept of "overtime" rates. To me that is bullshit.

2. They make it nearly impossible to fire deadwood

3. Pensions that are not sustainable.

I actually support them with respect to wage and safety levels.

 

[FAST]

That may be your definition of middle class.

So drug dealers who live in a middle class neighborhood,...are obviously "middle class" also,...by your definition.

FAST