Auto Strike

[SkyRider]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...th-gm-fiat-chrysler-and-ford/article31589332/

Is going on strike the best way to preserve auto jobs in Canada?

(Please, serious replies only. Thank you.)

 

[FAST]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...th-gm-fiat-chrysler-and-ford/article31589332/

Is going on strike the best way to preserve auto jobs in Canada?

(Please, serious replies only. Thank you.)

Has cost jobs in the past, and will again this time.

Kinda dumb to think this tactic will be beneficial to Canadian workers.

Of coarse, they also think that I should offer up money for the cause, this will be come out in a few days.

Americans don't like ANY plants not in the US, so there is a lot of support to shut down the Unifools.

FAST

 

[SkyRider]

Has cost jobs in the past, and will again this time.

Kinda dumb to think this tactic will be beneficial to Canadian workers.

Yeah, I think this will just hasten GM's departure from Canada. GM will probably re-locate to Mexico.

 

[Keebler Elf]

Most people won't think there's EVER a good reason for workers to go on strike so have to take those opinions with a grain of salt.

I don't know enough about the issues with GM to comment on this one.

But I'm not at all surprised the postal workers are going on strike. I have no love for them (a VERY militant union stuck in the past) but when your employer wants to hit reset on your pension plan I'm not surprised they're going on strike (or so they say, we'll see).

 

[SkyRider]

But I'm not at all surprised the postal workers are going on strike.

The postal workers have one huge advantage over the GM workers. Canada Post cannot re-locate to Mexico, GM can.

 

[Insidious Von]

Yeah, I think this will just hasten GM's departure from Canada. GM will probably re-locate to Mexico.

What are you saying Rocco, Mexicans are too dumb not be be compliant?

In any free trade zone labour costs balance out. Sometimes even in a dictatorship the cost of labour will rise, the assembly workers in the PRC are demanding middle class benefits. The cost of labour in Mexico has also been rising, they are not content to be dupes of big business either. And a total ban of unions doesn't really work. Adolf Hitler did it and became ever more reliant on slave labour as the war progressed. Sometimes you have to pause, how much money does the %0.1 actually need. Unless GM has plant ready to go in an economically blighted region like Mississippi they don't have much to gain from moving out of Ontario. And GM still has serious structural problems and will probably need another bail out when the next recession hits.

GM needs the skills, and training of Ontario workers. And also the infrastructure to get their goods to market at a reasonable cost. Now is not the time for poisonous labour relations with the CAW.

 

[Insidious Von]

To be rid of union troubles GM would have to offer the same benefit packages that Toyota and Honda currently provide their workers. GM is in no position to offer such benefits, their corporate costs are %40 higher than their Japanese rivals.

And there's another factor to take into account when relocating to a developing country Rocco, bureaucratic kickbacks. And I haven't even mentioned the drug wars going on in Mexico.

 

[wazup]

I thought the car industry tried the Mexico thing before and moved back because of poor quality of work and costing too much in warranty work, am I mistaken?

 

[waterloodude]

The skyrocketing hydro costs in Ontario have made it difficult for any manufacturing jobs. With the weakened Canadian dollar people seem to think jobs will come back but I don't see it. I think the auto industry is an example of this where jobs have moved to the US (not Mexico so not simply cheaper wages).

 

[Insidious Von]

The pension problems of Canada Post are long in the making. It started when Finance Minister Paul Martin expropriated the pension surpluses of CUPW and CPAC in order to pay down the national debt. Canada's finances were a basketcase when the Chretien government took power. It came down to either drastic tax hikes or public employees taking the hit. Since then CPC-CUPW contributions have risen over time but the program remains vulnerable.

 

[Insidious Von]

The skyrocketing hydro costs in Ontario have made it difficult for any manufacturing jobs. With the weakened Canadian dollar people seem to think jobs will come back but I don't see it. I think the auto industry is an example of this where jobs have moved to the US (not Mexico so not simply cheaper wages).

The Wynne government has totally buggered Hydro. I could understand if the government told us that the extra costs were going toward upgrading nuclear power, but they haven't. Their arrogance is galling and it's costing this province jobs.

 

[bazokajoe]

I'm currently a union member(not with the auto workers).It's a dicey call when to go on strike and when not to.Nobody wins in the short term during a strike,it's the long run you have to look at.That old saying "short term pain for long term gain" says it all.My biggest concern has always been "will costs get to high and the company will just move,close or go bankrupt.Each side has a responsibility to make sure this doesn't happen.When I receive the final offer to vote on I don't care what the negotiating committee recommends.I say to myself" can I live with this offer for the next 3-5 years,or whatever the contract length is".
Ultimately, it's the union memberships decision.

 

[Insidious Von]

Here's important information about the rising cost of nuclear energy. Again the Wynne governments hasn't sent where the extra money for Hydro is going toward. It's about time they fessed up!

http://www.psr.org/environment-and-health/environmental-health-policy-institute/responses/the-growing-problem-of-spent-nuclear-fuel.html

 

[Mr. Piggy]

The Wynne government has totally buggered Hydro. I could understand if the government told us that the extra costs were going toward upgrading nuclear power, but they haven't. Their arrogance is galling and it's costing this province jobs.

Wynne has done more than just buggered hydro, she and past liberal governments have fucked Ontario. Do you think she cares if she doesn't get re elected. I'm sure she would like to but she already qualifies for the pension. I bet it's a lot more than what I'm getting for my pension.

 

[Mr. Piggy]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...th-gm-fiat-chrysler-and-ford/article31589332/

Is going on strike the best way to preserve auto jobs in Canada?

(Please, serious replies only. Thank you.)

If they go on strike, I hope they fuck themselves royally this time. I have no use for them overpaid unionized assholes. I just bought a new car and it wasn't a GM. Fuck them.

 

[Keebler Elf]

The postal workers have one huge advantage over the GM workers. Canada Post cannot re-locate to Mexico, GM can.

Not really true. With most mail moving to packages, Canada Post doesn't have a monopoly over that.

There may always be letters, but eventually Canada Post will collapse as a business entity if they can't fully expand into other revenue streams. And if it collapses, regular letter service will just be another thing the gov't contracts out.

 

[Keebler Elf]

Adolf Hitler did it and became ever more reliant on slave labour as the war progressed.

I wouldn't bring Hitler into it. That's a total misrepresentation of what was going on in Nazi Germany. The unions were viewed (and often were) communist agents so the national socialists got rid of them. The slave labour had nothing to do with unions and everything to do with the millions of Germans who had been killed during the war and the resultant manpower shortage for industry.

 

[Keebler Elf]

To be rid of union troubles GM would have to offer the same benefit packages that Toyota and Honda currently provide their workers.

Huh? My understanding is that Toyota/Honda provide just as much as GM to keep the unions out. Not the other way around.

 

[FAST]

Huh? My understanding is that Toyota/Honda provide just as much as GM to keep the unions out. Not the other way around.

Easier for Toyota/Honda to be generous, their plants are MUCH more efficient, as they don't have to put up with the Unifools archaic physiology, that inefficiency creates jobs.

I have spent quite a bit of time in both unionized, and none union, big difference, and attitude.

FAST

 

[Keebler Elf]

I've read that Canadian auto plants (Oshawa for example) are just as efficient as US plants. It's the subsidies that US states pay that makes them more attractive (but which, in turn, is offset by Canadian universal health care that reduces employer costs).