Problem is unlike Ontario, NY, New England, MISO (parts of 15 states) and PJM (parts of 13 states), there is no open market for electricity in Quebec so you can't dump our surplus on them.Well I am sure a deal can be struck, if not just tell them the alternative is we will build massive nukes and more wind power and dump our off peak surplus right into their markets.
They get guaranteed access to our power market in return for supplying power cheaper then we can build it with nukes... as simple as that. If not we build nukes for our baseload and end up as competitors for the same customers. If there is investment required to develop their hydro, we invest with them in return for good mutual benefits.Problem is unlike Ontario, NY, New England, MISO (parts of 15 states) and PJM (parts of 13 states), there is no open market for electricity in Quebec so you can't dump our surplus on them.
And yes, I am sure a deal can be struck, but you gotta give to get. They will probably ask that in exchange for access to their hydroelectric power, the Habs get returned to them their former first right to draft any and all quebec born players.
Not bad, but we don't need anymore baseload power. Ontario has too. That is what SBG is ... surplus Baseload Generation and according to the IESO, we had too much baseload in 88% of hours to thus far in 2016. We need more peaking power, but we can't use more baseload as a hammer in the negotiation.They get guaranteed access to our power market in return for supplying power cheaper then we can build it with nukes... as simple as that. If not we build nukes for our baseload and end up as competitors for the same customers. If there is investment required to develop their hydro, we invest with them in return for good mutual benefits.
We can trade baseload with them in return for using their hydro as more valuable peaking power. In either case surely there is a mutually beneficial deal to be had here.Not bad, but we don't need anymore baseload power. Ontario has too. That is what SBG is ... surplus Baseload Generation and according to the IESO, we had too much baseload in 88% of hours to thus far in 2016. We need more peaking power, but we can't use more baseload as a hammer in the negotiation.
There is already one deal in place, a capacity sharing agreement. Ontario provides up to 500 MW of capacity in the winter to Quebec (note that the Quebec system peaks in winter) and Quebec does likewise for Ontario in the summer (Ontario became summer peak after 2001). This is a capacity agreement; depending on timing the the actual delivery of power can be best effort basis only.We can trade baseload with them in return for using their hydro as more valuable peaking power. In either case surely there is a mutually beneficial deal to be had here.
Sorry Dirk, but this is not quite right.
The complete potential for hydroelectric development in Ontario was well known by the 1940's, including all of the northern reaches of the province. Those sites were developed starting as early as the 1920's and continued though to the 1960's, long before Quebec's development of James Bay and Manitoba's development on the Nelson River. In those days, Ontario Hydro pretty much did what they wanted since there were no environmentalists to tell fuck off to, and indigenous peoples were just fucked over, no matter what they said. (decades later, apologies were made, e.g. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/gull-bay-first-nation-gets-apology-from-ontario-power-generation-1.2870505.
Another example was the deliberate flooding of several towns along the St. Lawrence for the Saunders/Moses power project. http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/the-lost-villages/.
So Ontario Hydro certainly had the cajones to fuck whomever over in the name of progress. By the end of the 1960's, every major site worth developing for hydroelectric power in Ontario had been tapped. This is why Ontario Hydro started to build coal fired stations beginning in the 1950's. Growth in electricity demand could no longer be met by hydroelectric development in Ontario.
Now, there are a few major rivers in northern Ontario without any hydro development .... the Albany, the Severn, the Attawapiskat, the Winisk. But the topography along these rivers is not the same as the sites where the big developments are located on the Nelson River in Manitoba and the Eastmain and Grande Rivers in Quebec. The rivers in northern Ontario have large flows, but virtually no drop in elevation (not enough "head") and no sites at which to build a dam and a forebay. Not enough head and nobody's happy.
In summary, the hydroelectric resources are not the same, with installed hydroelectric capacity is as follows:
Ontario - 8,400 MW
Quebec - 36,000 MW
Manitoba - 5,200 MW.
Although there has been advances in the efficiency of high flow low head turbines, the overall economics is still marginal, witnessed by the underwhelming development thus far of tidal power. Also, if you have been in the far north of Ontario, building transmission lines is a challenge. Not impossible, just expensive.Thanks for setting the record straight here Submariner.
Now I'm not discounting anything you've said, as the information is accurate, but more spit-balling on today's engineering and if there have been any new surveys of the area. Is the topography that different, that in this day and age they haven't figured out how to use that volume and flow to their benefit? I've been in the far north, where the flow of a river has been reversed, on what seemed to be a fairly flat topographic feature and that was done many, many years ago for the mining industry.
Is that because of residential electric heating in Quebec, or for some other reason?Ontario provides up to 500 MW of capacity in the winter to Quebec (note that the Quebec system peaks in winter)
yes, electric heating load the main reasonIs that because of residential electric heating in Quebec, or for some other reason?
Well put.Although there has been advances in the efficiency of high flow low head turbines, the overall economics is still marginal, witnessed by the underwhelming development thus far of tidal power. Also, if you have been in the far north of Ontario, building transmission lines is a challenge. Not impossible, just expensive.
Just curious, of which northern reversed river are you referring?
A more local reversed river is located near Niagara Falls. What locals know as Chippawa Creek (known to others as the Welland River) used to flow into the Niagara River at the present-day Kingsbridge Park above the Falls. However, since the opening of the original Beck generating station in 1922 the lower 5 km of the Welland River flows backwards from the Niagara River into the mouth of the Chippawa-Queenston Power Canal.
YEP,...typical out of touch with reality Fiberals,..."Queen’s Park will start a “cash-for-clunkers” program to encourage motorists to switch to electric cars,..."Well put.
To increase Ontario's green energy we do really need to rely more on wind and solar. Solar won't be as cheap for us, but it'll work.
The latest leak of Ontario's plan is out at the star, doesn't sound too far off really.
https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/06/07/revealed-ontarios-climate-change-action-plan.html
YEP,...a guy near Kitchener put up a windmill generator, and the Fiberals responded in typical fashion, by raising his property taxes by $1000's of dollars.If you completely disconnected from the grid, the fuckers would find a "charge" for you LOL
Cool story, bro.YEP,...a guy near Kitchener put up a windmill generator, and the Fiberals responded in typical fashion, by raising his property taxes by $1000's of dollars.
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Are you calling me a liar, footer,...that's comical,...coming from you,...Cool story, bro.
The chances that property taxes were raised because of a windmill are incredibly low.Are you calling me a liar, footer,...that's comical,...coming from you,...
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Just to confirm,...assuming you have the guts to be a man for once,...are you calling me a liar,...yes or no,...???The chances that property taxes were raised because of a windmill are incredibly low.
So yes, I think you or your friend are making things up or embellishing.
