The title of your post: John Tory to Fort McMurray, "we'd like to help, but we can't afford it".
He did not say what you have imputed. That seems disingenuous to me.
John Tory to Fort McMurray, "we'd like to help, but we can't afford it"
- Thread starter james t kirk
- Start date
He did not say what you have imputed. That seems disingenuous to me.
The no direction I was speaking of, was to send resources without direction from Fort Mac outlining what they need....not the direction when they got there.
It's like Tory sending 50 fire-fighters without direction from Fort Mac. Say the leadership at Fort Mac doesn't need fire-fighters, they need medics, and nurses. Waste of time to send what they don't need.
Fort Mac needs to tell us what they need before we send it, because while we are guessing and tying up resources to send things they don't need, the stuff they do need can't get there.
It's a no-win scenario: people will criticize if he offered the help or stayed silent. Better to offer something even if it's just a meaningless token IMO.
I agree with JTK here, Tory's sentiments are empty.
While I know there is a difference between forest and city firefighting, when the fire was closing in on Ft Mac, Toronto should have sent a compliment of firefighters out to help the city itself. The Ft Mac fire dept has been overwhelmed and its staff has been physically and emotionally drained because of this experience. Ft Mac is their home and their families have been evacuated. Their personel worked to exhaustion. Toronto's firefighters could have aided their department in battling the fires within the city, alleviating the burden upon Ft Mac's firefighters. Also, city firefighters can be used to fight the forest fire by being integrated into the forest crews, to compliment their ranks and working under them.
Toronto has the biggest fire department in Canada and is also one of the biggest in North America. Toronto thinks of itself as a world class city as well and yet it just sat on it's ass, sending hollow sentiments, when one could see before it happened that they needed the manpower that has the skills to do the what was needed. A great opportunity to step up and be a leader and a good cousin. Shameful shit.
While I know there is a difference between forest and city firefighting, when the fire was closing in on Ft Mac, Toronto should have sent a compliment of firefighters out to help the city itself. The Ft Mac fire dept has been overwhelmed and its staff has been physically and emotionally drained because of this experience. Ft Mac is their home and their families have been evacuated. Their personel worked to exhaustion. Toronto's firefighters could have aided their department in battling the fires within the city, alleviating the burden upon Ft Mac's firefighters. Also, city firefighters can be used to fight the forest fire by being integrated into the forest crews, to compliment their ranks and working under them.
Toronto has the biggest fire department in Canada and is also one of the biggest in North America. Toronto thinks of itself as a world class city as well and yet it just sat on it's ass, sending hollow sentiments, when one could see before it happened that they needed the manpower that has the skills to do the what was needed. A great opportunity to step up and be a leader and a good cousin. Shameful shit.
So Fort MacMurray is 2600km away from Toronto... and Tory is being criticized for not sending firefighters?
How about the hundreds of firefighters that are in the SAME PROVINCE as the disaster?
People let emotion blind them so easily. Logistically it makes absolutely NO SENSE at all for Toronto to send firefighters to Alberta.
Why don't we ask Singapore to send of firefighters too?
How about the hundreds of firefighters that are in the SAME PROVINCE as the disaster?
People let emotion blind them so easily. Logistically it makes absolutely NO SENSE at all for Toronto to send firefighters to Alberta.
Why don't we ask Singapore to send of firefighters too?
Ontario sends forest firefighters all over Canada to fight fires. In this case Calgary sent a contingent and even then, they were overwhelmed with the size and scope of the fire within Ft Mac. It's called being a good citizen, as we so often do for others, in foreign lands and get nothing in return and ask for nothing. Why not within our own borders?
The City of Toronto has no expertise or equipment to help fight the kind of fire raging at Fort McMurray. What Tory should have said is "We don't have any resources that would help you, but we will lend our political support to help get you what you need." He then should have picked up the phone and called Wynne to encourage the Province to send as many of its forest fire fighting resources as could be spared.
I agree with both James T. Kirk and Shlong Connery. I agree that Tory's offer of "resources" was disingenuous, precisely because I also agree that the City of Toronto has nothing worthwhile to offer.
Now the Feds and the Provinces are another story.
I agree with both James T. Kirk and Shlong Connery. I agree that Tory's offer of "resources" was disingenuous, precisely because I also agree that the City of Toronto has nothing worthwhile to offer.
Now the Feds and the Provinces are another story.
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Yeah. Sending equipment from Toronto to Alberta doesn't even make sense. Even if we managed to get trucks over there, you know there are going to be people bitching about the immense cost of shipping stuff over there and back.
This is why many Canadians outside of Toronto hates the city of Toronto. I remember living in Vancouver for a few years and each time I told them I was from Toronto, the name calling wouldn't stop.
On the contrary, Calgary sent a contingent of their cities firefighters to assist the Ft Mac Fire dept. Ft Mac is a decent sized city and Toronto could have sent a contingent of their firefighters there to assist in fighting the fires within the city itself. This frees up forest firefighters who would be better utilized elsewhere.
Forest firefighters are specialized in forest ops, so fighting the fire in the bush and doing what they can to stem the tide of the fire, working in conjunction with the water bombers. They do what they can with the fire in the bush, working fire breaks, mopping hot spots in areas so they don't reignite into a full blaze. They would do whatever it is forest firefighters do, instead of being used within the city limits of Ft Mac, fighting the fires there to stem the loss of property. Within the city limits you utilize the resources of city firefighters, who are specialized in structure fires, which were required in Ft Mac itself while the fire raged around and in the city limits.
And yes fuji, you are correct, Toronto doesn't have any water bombers, but I'm sure you already knew that. It's apparent that you don't know the difference in the what was required in firefighters in and around Ft Mac.
So we are all talking about fire. What about the areas that have touched towns with people living in them? Their houses literally burnt to the ground. I think putting out the fire isn't Toronto's responsibility even if they could help out it out. Why? Well because someone mentioned earlier that it would take days for our equipment to get out there. When it comes to fires you have to think about putting it out now and not putting it out 5 days later. I believe the best we can do is to out supplies together for the people who now have no food, water or shelter. That can be flown out in a matter of hours. In the mean time neighbouring cities (especially the cities the fire may be heading towards) should lend a hand with putting it out once and for all.
I understand Tory may have felt pressure to say something for the public but there needs to be priorities here.
I understand Tory may have felt pressure to say something for the public but there needs to be priorities here.
All this whining and criticism from emotions. Not one of any of us has any direct knowledge of any of this, least of all being experts in firefighting. Fort McMurray authorities are not sitting there saying "Oh I wish someone would offer to send us firemen but we're not going to ask because we're kinda shy"
IF they needed help, they most definitely would reach out. In fact there are long standing, formal and highly organized mutual assistance agreements/networks already in place that the provincial fire services already draw upon. They operate without political meddling.
But carry on using this to take a swipe at Tory, Trudeau or whomever you think you can make something stick to!
IF they needed help, they most definitely would reach out. In fact there are long standing, formal and highly organized mutual assistance agreements/networks already in place that the provincial fire services already draw upon. They operate without political meddling.
But carry on using this to take a swipe at Tory, Trudeau or whomever you think you can make something stick to!
The guys fighting the forest fire have already said that there's nothing they can really do about this one. It's going to burn until it burns itself out or a heavy rain comes.
All they have been doing really is going to the already burned out areas and putting out the embers.
This fire is capable of jumping a kilometer wide fire break. Even if you soaked a kilometer of forest in front of it, it can jump that. It jumped the Athabasca river at a point where the river is a kilometer wide. It's so servere it's having atmospheric effects, creating lightning that ignites more fires.
They're just studying its trajectory and moving people out of its way. In a very few cases they are defending various specific bits of infrastructure, like putting everything they can into preventing the water treatment facility from being destroyed.
All those things require machinery and equipment more than people. Dumping large quantities of water and flame retardant isn't something you do with a bucket. You need aircraft.
Actually lots of fires like this one rage out of control, there are several more equally big fires raging out there. The difference is this one moved into a populated area while the others are middle of nowhere.
The most likely outcome is this fire eventually burns off in a different direction that nobody cared about, returning to obscurity to burn another few weeks of forest rather than houses.
This fire will turn out to be a god send to Ft. McMurray. Minimal casualties, a huge insurance payout and jobs for the thousands of out of work oil workers for about 2 years. As for sending money, I have been sending them money for years lol.
