John Tory to Fort McMurray, "we'd like to help, but we can't afford it"

[james t kirk]

I read this on the CBC:

Toronto Mayor John Tory said Wednesday that he has reached out to his counterpart in Fort McMurray "to express our solidarity with them but also to say if there's any way in which we can be helpful to them, if we can lend our support in terms of some of our very excellent emergency or other professional resources, that they need only let me know."

The city doesn't have a reserve fund from which to draw money to send to help with firefighting or evacuation efforts, he said. But the city's fire and other emergency responders and experts in emergency management are ready to help.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-firefighters-alberta-fire-1.3566225



WTF?

Why even bother phoning the guy? Dick head.

Does he think that guys fighting wild fires in Fort McMurray are just going to phone up some guy at the City of Toronto and leave a voicemail for the guy?

Find out what the Mayor of Fort McMurray needs, load up some trucks, drive out the fire fighting equipment and help. You're paying for these guys (City of Toronto Emergency Services) anyway. 95% of them just sit in the station for their entire shift.

Offering empty platitudes? Tory should have kept his mouth shut. He just made himself and this city look like a bunch of phonies.

 

[SchlongConery]

I read this on the CBC:

Toronto Mayor John Tory said Wednesday that he has reached out to his counterpart in Fort McMurray "to express our solidarity with them but also to say if there's any way in which we can be helpful to them, if we can lend our support in terms of some of our very excellent emergency or other professional resources, that they need only let me know."

The city doesn't have a reserve fund from which to draw money to send to help with firefighting or evacuation efforts, he said. But the city's fire and other emergency responders and experts in emergency management are ready to help.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-firefighters-alberta-fire-1.3566225



WTF?

Why even bother phoning the guy? Dick head.

Does he think that guys fighting wild fires in Fort McMurray are just going to phone up some guy at the City of Toronto and leave a voicemail for the guy?

Find out what the Mayor of Fort McMurray needs, load up some trucks, drive out the fire fighting equipment and help. You're paying for these guys (City of Toronto Emergency Services) anyway. 95% of them just sit in the station for their entire shift.

Offering empty platitudes? Tory should have kept his mouth shut. He just made himself and this city look like a bunch of phonies.

Uhhhhhhhmmmmm....

Your very own cut and paste said he did offer exactly what you say this "dickhead" should have done.

" if we can lend our support in terms of some of our very excellent emergency or other professional resources, that they need only let me know."


Or are suggesting he just fill up the fire trucks with gas and water and send them on a 5 day drive across the country,

And without them saying they can use more fire trucks and firemen? Urban firefighters and trucks to fight a forest fire that is, by the statements of the Ft Mac Chief out of control such that only nature (rain)can slow down?

Talk about empty platitudes Mr Kirk.

What Ft Mac is going to need in the next phase is management. Management to coordinate the huge amount of LOCAL volunteers and residents clean, up resettle et.

And from what I know of City of Toronto management, the best thing anyone can do is keep those fucking incompetent fucktards as far away as possible. They'd have pylons and lane closures up for 5 years and crews would only repair the highways during rush hour! LOL

 

[james t kirk]

Uhhhhhhhmmmmm....

Your very own cut and paste said he did offer exactly what you say this "dickhead" should have done.

" if we can lend our support in terms of some of our very excellent emergency or other professional resources, that they need only let me know."


Or are suggesting he just load up the fire trucks and send them on a 5 day drive across the country?

Offering resources is not the same as offering to mobilize crews.

He's basically saying, unless I'm misinterpreting, "we don't want to spend any money to actually send anyone out to help, but we do have resources here in Toronto if you guys need any free advice, feel free to give us a call"

And yes, put them on the highway and get driving. Or put them on a train for that matter. A special train from CN or CP could pull 24 / 7 and have heavy equipment there in 2 days. Driving straight is 2 days, not 5. Put men and hand equipment on commercial planes. The military has transport planes that could easily lift heavy equipment. Put people and light equipment on Air Canada and get them out there to do some good. All it takes is political will.

They brought in the army in Toronto in 99 to shovel snow. Snow. I don't see the army out in Northern Alberta. (At least, I haven't seen it in the media.)

 

[SchlongConery]

Offering resources is not the same as offering to mobilize crews.

He's basically saying, unless I'm misinterpreting, "we don't want to spend any money to actually send anyone out to help, but we do have resources here in Toronto if you guys need any free advice, feel free to call"

And yes, put them on the highway and get driving. Or put them on a train for that matter. A special train from CN or CP could pull 24 / 7 and have heavy equipment there in 3 days. Put men and equipment on planes. The military has transport planes that could easily lift heavy equipment. Put people and light equipment on Air Canada and get them out there to do some good.

The feds fell over themselves to bring 25,000 Syrians to Canada in 8 weeks, they need to make a similar effort now to mobilize men and resources to help out.

What specific equipment and workers would you send? You have said fire trucks and firemen. Lots already there. Watching helplessly. And by the time any trucks arrive, the fire will have either burnt itself out, moved on, or grown even further out of control into the forest.

They are not lacking firemen and fire trucks. Plenty closer to them anyways if they did.

But nice platitude.

 

[FAST]

Offering resources is not the same as offering to mobilize crews.

He's basically saying, unless I'm misinterpreting, "we don't want to spend any money to actually send anyone out to help, but we do have resources here in Toronto if you guys need any free advice, feel free to call"

And yes, put them on the highway and get driving. Or put them on a train for that matter. A special train from CN or CP could pull 24 / 7 and have heavy equipment there in 3 days. Put men and equipment on planes. The military has transport planes that could easily lift heavy equipment. Put people and light equipment on Air Canada and get them out there to do some good.

The feds fell over themselves to bring 25,000 Syrians to Canada in 8 weeks, they need to make a similar effort now to mobilize men and resources to help out.

Junior doesn't like to get smoke in his eyes, so no photo ops, no not interested.

FAST

 

[james t kirk]

What specific equipment and workers would you send? You have said fire trucks and firemen. Lots already there. Watching helplessly. And by the time any trucks arrive, the fire will have either burnt itself out, moved on, or grown even further out of control into the forest.

They are not lacking firemen and fire trucks. Plenty closer to them anyways if they did.

But nice platitude.

Ask the people on the ground what they need and send it.

The population of Toronto is greater than that of all of Alberta.

I was using the example of fire fighting equipment as an obvious requirement. I'm not on the ground in Fort McMurray, so I react based on the fact that there is a wild fire out of control in Northern Alberta that as of this morning is bigger than the state of New Jersey. So I'm sure that they can use people and resources. Tory made the hollow offer in order to appear to the ignorant that he's actually offering help, when the truth of the matter is that he's not. (You fell for it.)

Or do you figure that they have the thing under control with what they currently have and don't need any help? Cause when I read your post above, my take-away is a great big "meh" on your part. Nice buddy.

 

[SchlongConery]

Offering resources is not the same as offering to mobilize crews.

He's basically saying, unless I'm misinterpreting, "we don't want to spend any money to actually send anyone out to help, but we do have resources here in Toronto if you guys need any free advice, feel free to give us a call"

And yes, put them on the highway and get driving. Or put them on a train for that matter. A special train from CN or CP could pull 24 / 7 and have heavy equipment there in 2 days. Driving straight is 2 days, not 5. Put men and hand equipment on commercial planes. The military has transport planes that could easily lift heavy equipment. Put people and light equipment on Air Canada and get them out there to do some good. All it takes is political wil

The feds fell over themselves to bring 25,000 Syrians to Canada in 8 weeks, they need to make a similar effort now to mobilize men and resources to help out..

Are you talking about the Feds or John Tory? Or are you just trying to draw a false equivalency across your disgust that Canadians provided refuge to victims of a civil war?

If you ar talking about the Feds. Trudeau has said that the Federal government has provided EVERYTHING that the Alberta / Ft Mac government has asked for. Everything. And heir Premier and Mayor have both expressed their appreciation for the absolute support of the federal government.

But if you and Yoga Face think you know better and that everyone and every city should just send whatever THEY think that is needed, then perhaps the best idea is to give all the experts on the ground out there TERB memberships so they can smarten up.

 

[james t kirk]

Are you talking about the Feds or John Tory? Or are you just trying to draw a false equivalency across your disgust that Canadians provided refuge to victims of a civil war?

If you ar talking about the Feds. Trudeau has said that the Federal government has provided EVERYTHING that the Alberta / Ft Mac government has asked for. Everything. And heir Premier and Mayor have both expressed their appreciation for the absolute support of the federal government.

But if you and Yoga Face think you know better and that everyone and every city should just send whatever THEY think that is needed, then perhaps the best idea is to give all the experts on the ground out there TERB memberships so they can smarten up.

1. The thread was about the hollow offer of assistance of John Tory.

2. I have stated that the people on the ground should be asked what they need and every effort should be made to supply it. (I know, you think that things are under control and that the Albertans have everything they need. The fact that the fires continue to grow with every passing day, well, they have everything they need.)

 

[SchlongConery]

Ask the people on the ground what they need and send it.

I was using the example of fire fighting equipment as an obvious requirement. I'm not on the ground in Fort McMurray, so I react based on the fact that there is a wild fire out of control in Northern Alberta that as of this morning is bigger than the state of New Jersey. So I'm sure that they can use people and resources. Tory made the hollow offer in order to appear to the ignorant that he's actually offering help, when the truth of the matter is that he's not. (You fell for it.)


Or do you figure that they have the thing under control with what they currently have and don't need any help?

The FIRE is OUT OF CONTROL!!!!! Sending a token Urban fire truck to fight a WILDFIRE in areas where there are NO ROADS is an "obvious requirement"?

Sending Toronto's entire fleet of Fire Trucks and every firefighter in Toronto WILL NOT MAKE ONE BIT OF DIFFERENCE.

The Fire Chief and the Provincial Forest fire fighting team leader has said that even the dozens of massive water bombers are completely ineffective against this fire. "Like spitting on a campfire" is a quote I recall reading.

Ontario and Quebec have already sent trained forest firefighters and water bombers. As have many other provinces and US states.

A lot of people don't know that there are long standing formal mutual assistance agreements and procedures in place all across North America for forest fire fighting. If one area needs more resources, there is a formal up to the minute network showing where resources are available and can be drawn upon and deployed. There are agreed protocols and risk models and cost-reimbursement agreement that have been in place for decades and are staffed and resourced 24/7/365.

Sending more TORONTO fire fighters (who spend most of their time screaming around the city with sirens wailing to shut off condo fire alarms and stand around car accidents scenes sweeping up oil absorber) will not help ONE little bit. In fact, they will just end up handing out water bottles in their fire fighter outfits.

Toronto's Mayor reached out to their Mayor and said if there is anything they need, just ask.

But you suggest he should just show up with the equivalent of yet another token casserole of lasagna like when someone dies and they don;t know how to help?

Alberta is far more capable and resourceful than we in the centre of the universe in Toronto have any idea.

I have texted some friends out there who are well connected and involved and asked what I might be able to help with, directly or indirectly or through my connections.

Their response? We are just waiting for the fire to burn out and when we can get back into the city and assess the damage, we will know what we need and let you know how best to help.

The City is going to need heavy equipment like bulldozers, loaders, excavators, dump trucks etc to clean up. Fortunately, there are more of those out there than you can imagine.

Then they will need infrastructure contractors for power lines, road repair, signals, and then they are going to need construction crews. And building materials. There is going to be a plywood and lumber shortage for sure!

The one thing that I think will be a really issue is temporary housing. Even with all the oil sands work camp structures.

 

[Butler1000]

Sorry Kirk but Shlong is correct. There is nothing the Toronto Fire Services can do in this instance.

I would rather send out help later when we can offer something concrete.

 

[SchlongConery]

1. The thread was about the hollow offer of assistance of John Tory.

2. I have stated that the people on the ground should be asked what they need and every effort should be made to supply it. (I know, you think that things are under control and that the Albertans have everything they need. The fact that the fires continue to grow with every passing day, well, they have everything they need.)

What do you mean by "people on the ground"? The actual evacuees? If so, they need a place to sleep and eat. And they are finding that several hundred kilometres away in the many towns and cities that have welcomed them in with open arms.

They will next need a FIRM direction from all levels of government directed at the Insurance cartel to PAY OUT THE FULL VALUE OF THE POLICIES ...NOW. No fucking around playing the delay game.

If you mean the "firefighters on the ground. Well, as I said, the firefighting services already have a highly developed infrastructure to allow them to draw on the resources they NEED And if they needed a high-rise ladder truck from Toronto or a 2,000 gallon pumper truck from Scarborough, then they would have already asked.

Sure Tory's offer was effectively without substance and merely a token of "support". But unless we really don't have much to offer them except cash. And at this point, the Feds and Alberta have already committed as much as they think is needed.

 

[huckfinn]

Tory has done the right thing......sending resources out to Alberta with no direction on what they need will only add confusion and put a strain on resources to keep unnecessary people and equipment there.

 

[SchlongConery]

Tory has done the right thing......sending resources out to Alberta with no direction on what they need will only add confusion and put a strain on resources to keep unnecessary people and equipment there.

Exactly. Each Toronto Firefighter would take up a bed that is needed by higher priority help.

The fire cannot be halted or even slowed by man. It is truly out of control. And it is burning where it can only be fought from the air.

 

[james t kirk]

Globe and Mail now reporting that fire could double in size.

 

[james t kirk]

Tory has done the right thing......sending resources out to Alberta with no direction on what they need will only add confusion and put a strain on resources to keep unnecessary people and equipment there.

Why would you assume that there would be no direction?

There are going to be people in charge of co-ordinating the fight on all fronts. Presumably, they are giving direction. It's a massive job I realize, however, I'm sure that there is sound direction being given.

 

[james t kirk]

Sorry Kirk but Shlong is correct. There is nothing the Toronto Fire Services can do in this instance.

I would rather send out help later when we can offer something concrete.

I was using Toronto fire services as an obvious example. See Post No. 6.

Tory made a disingenuous offer of assistance. On one hand he says that Toronto has all these wonderful resources and all the mayor of Fort McMurray has to do is ask, yet he (Tory) then goes on to say that we don't have any budget in the reserve fund.

So it begs the question, "exactly what resources is Mr. Tory offering?"

 

[james t kirk]

What do you mean by "people on the ground"? The actual evacuees? If so, they need a place to sleep and eat. And they are finding that several hundred kilometres away in the many towns and cities that have welcomed them in with open arms.

They will next need a FIRM direction from all levels of government directed at the Insurance cartel to PAY OUT THE FULL VALUE OF THE POLICIES ...NOW. No fucking around playing the delay game.

If you mean the "firefighters on the ground. Well, as I said, the firefighting services already have a highly developed infrastructure to allow them to draw on the resources they NEED And if they needed a high-rise ladder truck from Toronto or a 2,000 gallon pumper truck from Scarborough, then they would have already asked.

Sure Tory's offer was effectively without substance and merely a token of "support". But unless we really don't have much to offer them except cash. And at this point, the Feds and Alberta have already committed as much as they think is needed.

You are in your own universe aren't you?

I'll use small words

"People on the ground" = those directing the effort to mitigate (whoops, that's a big word) and co-ordinate the response to the wild fire.

"People on the ground" does not equal the evacuees.

Tory's offer was disingenuous and he should have kept his mouth shut unless he was prepared to translate words into actions.

 

[SchlongConery]

Globe and Mail now reporting that fire could double in size.

So now Mayor Tory should send two fire trucks?

 

[Scarey]

When I heard that it may double in size I got more then a little uncomfortable.It's about 4 hours north of me but that's a little to close for comfort.Whats not really making it into the media is that they really cannot stop this thing without rain.Period.If it does not rain for 3 weeks then that fire WILL burn for three weeks and it can cover a lot of ground in that time.A co workers brother is (and I'm not sure the exact term) basically the air traffic controller for the water bombing runs and they have stated behind closed doors that every stop gap they have put in place has been defeated and the fire just jumps it and continues burning.My wife is involved in the "work camp" situation up north and she has said it's made her sick to hear the "Disaster capitalists" tuning up for a profitable summer........

 

[MattRoxx]

It's true they can't stop it without rain but there are ways to anticipate and control the direction the fire can travel.

Ask the people on the ground what they need and send it.

You are in your own universe aren't you?

I'll use small words

"People on the ground" = those directing the effort to mitigate (whoops, that's a big word) and co-ordinate the response to the wild fire.

"People on the ground" does not equal the evacuees.

Tory's offer was disingenuous and he should have kept his mouth shut unless he was prepared to translate words into actions.

In our universe and in our country, the mayor of Toronto or any other city should not be dealing directly with "the people on the ground" in Fort Mac.
You are tying yourself in knots trying to find fault with Tory's open-ended offer of assistance.

Toronto Mayor John Tory said Wednesday that he has reached out to his counterpart in Fort McMurray "to express our solidarity with them but also to say if there's any way in which we can be helpful to them, if we can lend our support in terms of some of our very excellent emergency or other professional resources, that they need only let me know."

I really don't see what more Toronto's mayor can do at the moment. What Tory said is basically the same as the statement from Federation of Canadian Municipalities:

On behalf of municipal leaders across Canada, I express our deepest support to our colleagues and residents of Fort McMurray Alberta as they cope with the devastation and continued high risk caused by wildfires. We stand with you in your time of need.

Canadians from coast to coast to coast have been gripped by the dramatic images emerging from the community. The stories of our fellow Canadians being forced from their homes have touched us all. No matter where we live, no matter how big or how small our hometown might be, the loss being experienced by our fellow citizens in Fort McMurray right now is a loss for us all.

I send my thoughts to first-responders on the ground who are tackling the fires, safely evacuating citizens, and setting up temporary shelters. Their brav-ery and dedication to serve the community make us all proud.

Already, the municipal sector is banding together to express support and offer help. In the spirit of true partnership, all orders of government will rally together to address the urgent needs of the community.