Is global climate policy actually about global income redistribution ?

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Moviefan-2

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Oct 17, 2011
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1995 updated to 0.46 + 0.40 = 0.86ºC
Your memory is getting bad, Franky.

You've forgotten that on your adjusted graph, there is a 0.03ºC difference between the 1995 adjustment and the adjustments that were made to the current years (https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...-warming-bet&p=5455248&viewfull=1#post5455248). As you well know, that difference wasn't due to any increase in temperature and does not count toward the IPCC's prediction -- or the bet.

Thus, the correct calculation using 1995 as the starting point on the adjusted graph is the total of 0.46ºC + 0.03ºC + 0.40ºC.

Guess what that adds up to? I'll give you a hint -- it's the same number you get when you add 0.15ºC to the 2014 temperature anomaly of 0.74ºC.

It makes no difference whether you use 1995 or 2014 as your starting point. When you do the math correctly, you get the same result. In fact, you must get the same result if you are applying the bet correctly.

And the answer isn't 0.83ºC. :biggrin1:
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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And the answer isn't 0.83ºC. :biggrin1:
Funny how your math doesn't come up with the same numbers now that NASA reported 2015 as @ 0.87ºC.
Typical weasel math.

You posted a graph that showed a 0.43ºC anomaly for 1995 and we agreed to bet on whether there would be a minimum increase of 0.4ºC over 20 years.

So we bet on the remaining distance from the original 1995 anomaly of 0.43ºC.
That calculation comes out to 0.83ºC, doesn't it?
And you got 0.83ºC here as well:
http://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/

If that's the chart you're saying will hit 0.83 at the end of 2015, we definitely have a bet.
Just shows that you are the one trying to change the terms of the bet, all because you lost.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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Funny how your math doesn't come up with the same numbers now that NASA reported 2015 as @ 0.87ºC.
Really?

Frankfooter, solve these two equations for us:

0.46 + 0.03 + 0.40 = ?
0.74 + 0.15 = ?

We'll see whether or not my math comes up with the same numbers.

Or are you still calculating that the answer is 0.83? :)
 

Frankfooter

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MattRoxx

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LOL you 2 numbskulls derailing another thread.

Why even climate science denialist Marc Morano knows not to bet against global warming datahttp://www.theguardian.com/environm...-knows-not-to-bet-against-global-warming-data
Research shows that since 1970, bets against global warming would have always lost


If betting really is a mug’s game, then betting against global warming is starting to look like an activity for the grandest of mugs.

A game for the sort of mug who could, right now, be looking forward to receipt of a squidrillion dollars in return for handing over their bank details to someone they just met over email.

Earlier this week, it turned out one of America’s most prominent and active deniers of the dangers of climate change was no mug when it came to putting some money on the table.

Marc Morano, of the conservative think tank the Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow (CFACT), had turned down two bets on global warming worth $20,000.

The bets were an offering from TV science pundit and commentator Bill Nye, whose name is rarely written without his rhyming epithet “the science guy”.

Nye offered to bet Morano that the current year, 2016, would be among the ten hottest ever recorded using conventional observations. The second was that the current decade would be the warmest on record.

Morano said the bets were “silly” and that it was “obvious” he would lose.

In an email to me, Morano further said the hottest year on record, 2015, was “barely a tenth of a degree” above the previous record (which happens to have been 2014). He also suggested that official figures from US government agencies had been “adjusted”.
...

But anyway, back to that mug’s game of betting against global warming.

Back in October, a research paper was published in the Royal Society’s 350-year-old journal, Philosophical Transactions A, that looked at the prospects of bets on global warming.

In the paper, Australian climate scientist Dr James Risbey, of the CSIRO, and colleagues looked back at global temperatures from the late 19th century to present day.

They wanted to find out what would have happened to bets made each year that the next 15 years would be warmer than the previous 15 years.


They found that from about 1970 onwards, the person betting on the world getting warmer would have won. As the paper noted:

The fact that so few bets have actually been taken against greenhouse warming implies that the level of actual resistance to greenhouse theory by climate contrarians is not as strong as claimed.

The analysis of betting strategies here shows that contrarians are rational insofar as they are not betting against greenhouse warming….

Bets against greenhouse warming are largely hopeless now and that is widely understood.

In January this year, British climate science sceptic/denier/contrarian Sir Alan Rudge admitted he’d been a “mug” for betting Cambridge University’s Dr Chris Hope £1000 that 2015 would be at least 0.1C cooler than 2008...
So anytime from about 1970 onwards, if you had placed a bet against the world warming in the following decade, then you’d have lost your cash. Lewandowsky concludes:

Bets are far from a triviality or merely a form of entertainment over a pint in the pub.

On the contrary, bets have been used for centuries to reveal people’s actual preferences in arenas such as economics or cognitive science. Anyone unwilling to take a financial risk on their position probably does not hold that position very strongly. It is therefore quite notable that people who deny the science of climate change are unwilling to back their position with money.

The widespread reluctance to engage in bets by people who deny climate science suggests that their public rhetoric differs from their actual knowledge, and that they know full well that any such bet would be hopeless.
 

MattRoxx

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So after all that happened, people started stirring up Bill Nye's Facebook page. And then NASA started posting facts, to educate the doubters.

NASA Publicly Smacked Down Climate Change Deniers on Bill Nye's Facebook Page

Bill Nye, the supreme avatar of bow-tied science wisdom, was at it again on Monday, posting a widely shared link of a challenge he made to climate skeptic Marc Morano that he would bet $20,000 that the planet would keep warming. Morano didn't take the wager.

When climate deniers tried to troll Nye in the post's public comments section, they were delivered a stinging clapback not from Nye but NASA.

There's a lot more, the whole FB saga is worth reading.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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LOL you 2 numbskulls derailing another thread.
You need to start paying attention to the news.

Because of people like Frankfooter, the Wynne government is investing $60 million to try to improve the teaching of math at the elementary level. Clearly, such innumeracy is considered to be an important problem in this province.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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Those numbers were not part of the bet, weasel.
I'm not interested in Dunning-Kruger effect math.

We bet on one number.
One number only.

0.83
So, now you're claiming the bet wasn't based on either 1995 or 2014. Unreal.

The reality is this: You have calculated that 0.74 + 0.15 = 0.83.

You also claim that 0.46 + 0.03 + 0.40 = either 0.83 or 0.86.

All of your calculations are wrong.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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You need to start paying attention to the news.

Because of people like Frankfooter, the Wynne government is investing $60 million to try to improve the teaching of math at the elementary level. Clearly, such innumeracy is considered to be an important problem in this province.
Yes, I've posted some of your Dunning-Kruger claims to Wynne and she agreed that its a failure of the system that someone like you can go on and on about claiming 0.87 isn't higher then 0.83 and that 1995-2015 bets need to be adjusted to 2014 without understanding how ridiculous they are.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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So, now you're claiming the bet wasn't based on either 1995 or 2014. Unreal.
The bet was based on 1995-2015, using NASA's numbers available at the time, as I've repeated millions of times here.
As you clearly stated:
You posted a graph that showed a 0.43ºC anomaly for 1995 and we agreed to bet on whether there would be a minimum increase of 0.4ºC over 20 years.

So we bet on the remaining distance from the original 1995 anomaly of 0.43ºC.


The reality is this: You have calculated that 0.74 + 0.15 = 0.83.

You also claim that 0.46 + 0.03 + 0.40 = either 0.83 or 0.86.
Why would I ever use numbers that came from 2014 in a bet on changes between 1995-2015?
Those are your cheating numbers, the ones you started using after you lost the bet and went all weaselly.
You stated the correct in the red quoted post, check there.


Marc Morano sounds like a much, much smarter denier then you. He at least has the brains not to take on bets he knows will lose. You, however took on a stupid bet and now you are just showing yourself to be a total weasel in denying you lost fair and square. But would Morano act like you and refuse to pay up? Are all deniers weasels, or is it just you?

This is the bet you lost, based on 2015's numbers, not 2014.

http://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/

If that's the chart you're saying will hit 0.83 at the end of 2015, we definitely have a bet.

NASA reported:
- 2015 anomaly: 0.87ºC
1995-2015, loser.
Not 2014-2015.

Therefore, the bet is from 1995 to 2015 -- you won't have to wait, as we'll know the winner by early 2016.

Do we have a bet?
So not only did moviefan lose the bet, but he got his ass royally whipped in the bet as well. He bet for 0.83, it went up to 0.87 and so far the first three months of this year have averaged 1.25ºC. His ass got so kicked in his claim the IPCC was wrong and the warming wouldn't continue that temperatures have risen double what he said they wouldn't do. (weasel bet the temp wouldn't rise 0.40 over 2 decades, but with the first three months added the temperature has now increased to 0.82ºC from 1995's temperature as reported at the time of the bet. And note that this is typically the peak of El Nino temp spikes, so its like the rest of the year will be cooler then 1.25, most likely in the 0.85-0.95 range).

http://blog.hotwhopper.com/2016/04/hottest-march-on-record-tracking-el.html

His ass was kicked, his claims that warming aren't happening are disproven by this ass kicking and what does he have left?
Endless whining about trying to change a bet on 1995-2015 projections into a bet on year over year changes.

Loser.
 
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Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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Why would I ever use numbers that came from 2014 in a bet on changes between 1995-2015?
Well, if you knew anything about data, you would know that both equations must produce the same result if they're a correct adjustment from the original numbers.

In any event, the second equation is the calculation using 1995 as the starting point.

Let's try again. Tell us what number you get when you add 0.46ºC + 0.03ºC + 0.40ºC.

I'll give you a hint. The answer isn't 0.83ºC.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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Yes, I've posted some of your Dunning-Kruger claims to Wynne and she agreed that its a failure of the system that someone like you can go on and on about claiming 0.87 isn't higher then 0.83 and that 1995-2015 bets need to be adjusted to 2014 without understanding how ridiculous they are.
Actually, what I have said is that I reject your conclusion that 0.74 + 0.15 = 0.83.

I also reject your conclusion that 0.46 + 0.03 + 0.40 = 0.83 (or maybe you're saying 0.86 -- you seem confused on this one).

Your calculations are wrong.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Well, if you knew anything about data, you would know that both equations must produce the same result if they're a correct adjustment from the original numbers.
Now there's a totally indefensible Dunning-Kruger effect type claim if ever I saw one.
It makes no sense at all.

Look, idiot, we bet on whether 2015 would hit 0.83ºC.
That's all we bet on, once we did our calculations and agreed on the number then the calculations are done and you live with the number.
Only weasels keep trying to change the bet because they lost.
Weasel.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Actually, what I have said is that I reject your conclusion that 0.74 + 0.15 = 0.83.

I also reject your conclusion that 0.46 + 0.03 + 0.40 = 0.83 (or maybe you're saying 0.86 -- you seem confused on this one).

Your calculations are wrong.
This is my 'calculation':

0.87 > 0.83

You lost.
http://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/

If that's the chart you're saying will hit 0.83 at the end of 2015, we definitely have a bet.

NASA reported:
- 2015 anomaly: 0.87ºC
All else is irrelevant.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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Now there's a totally indefensible Dunning-Kruger effect type claim if ever I saw one.
It makes no sense at all.
God, you're dumb.

You genuinely believe the Earth's temperature can increase by two completely different rates at the same time?

No wonder you keep failing Grade 3. I'm wondering if you ever completed Grade 2.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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This is my 'calculation':

0.87 > 0.83
You've confirmed that you have calculated that adding 0.15ºC to the 2014 anomaly of 0.74ºC gives you a total of 0.83ºC.

Or, if you prefer to start with the 1995 anomaly, that you have calculated that adding 0.40ºC to 0.46ºC and 0.03ºC comes to 0.83ºC.

Here's the problem: Your calculations are wrong.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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You've confirmed that you have calculated that adding 0.15ºC to the 2014 anomaly of 0.74ºC gives you a total of 0.83ºC.

Or, if you prefer to start with the 1995 anomaly, that you have calculated that adding 0.40ºC to 0.46ºC and 0.03ºC comes to 0.83ºC.

Here's the problem: Your calculations are wrong.

Typical Dunning-Kruger effect math, you require a fudge number of 0.03.
Compare it with this statement on the math you made earlier:

You posted a graph that showed a 0.43ºC anomaly for 1995 and we agreed to bet on whether there would be a minimum increase of 0.4ºC over 20 years.

So we bet on the remaining distance from the original 1995 anomaly of 0.43ºC.
You are the one who fails grade 3 math here.
No mention of 0.03, total fucking lie there buddy.

Total fucking lie.

But the biggest problem is you refuse to admit that you committed to a bet on a fixed number, 0.83.
You continue to lie your face off and refuse to admit that you committed to betting on 0.83ºC, including promising to hold to this same number after those NASA changes first appeared in June of last year.

We bet that the temperature anomaly would increase in 2015 to 0.83ºC
Total fucking weasel, buddy, you are a total fucking weasel.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
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No mention of 0.03, total fucking lie there buddy.
Nice try. The quote you cited is from May 2015. The NASA adjustments that created the 0.03ºC difference were made in July 2015.

You're the guy who insists we must use the adjusted graph from July with the 0.03ºC difference.

Oh, wait ... you claim that's a "fudge number." Please tell us what number you get when you subtract 0.03ºC from 0.06ºC (https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...-warming-bet&p=5455248&viewfull=1#post5455248).

And once you've figured that out, we'll revisit your calculation that 0.46ºC + 0.40ºC + 0.03ºC = 0.83ºC.

Your problem remains the same: Your calculations are wrong.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Nice try. The quote you cited is from May 2015. The NASA adjustments that created the 0.03ºC difference were made in July 2015.
First, its total Dunning-Kruger effect logic to try to claim that a bet between 1995-2015's differences should be adjusted to changes in 2014. Totally Dunning-Kruger.

Second, you agreed to a bet then tried to change it.
Weasel move.

If you recall, after those NASA 'adjustments' you also stated you'd agree to continue the bet on its original terms, not adjusted for changes in 1995's numbers, nor adding extra numbers from any other year you felt like.

In any event, it's settled. The bet that you and I made on May 10, 2015, stands.
Which just shows you are lying.
Still trying to 'retroactively change the methodology', aren't you?

Still acting like a weasel, loser.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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First, its total Dunning-Kruger effect logic to try to claim that a bet between 1995-2015's differences should be adjusted to changes in 2014.
???? You don't have a clue what you're talking about. I never said any such thing (I don't even know what that sentence means, and neither do you).

What I have said is that if you're going to insist on using the adjusted graph, you have to use the correct numbers. You can't create fairy tales by mixing and matching numbers from completely different graphs.

We bet on a temperature anomaly (and only one) that represented a 0.40ºC increase over 1995 and a 0.15ºC over 2014 -- you get the same number when you apply the math correctly.

If you find adjustments too confusing, you can simply use the year-over-year increase in 2015, since the current years were all adjusted at the same rate.

Frankfooter's graph says the 2014 anomaly was 0.74ºC. He continues to argue that 0.74ºC + 0.15ºC = 0.83ºC.

Or, when he switches to the 1995 anomaly, he argues that 0.46ºC + 0.03ºC + 0.40ºC = 0.83ºC.

Frankfooter has correctly guessed that the two calculations produce the same number -- but it isn't 0.83ºC.

Frankfooter's calculations are wrong.
 
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