Bone discovery suggests a mysterious ancient species lived alongside our ancestors

twizz

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Olivia Goldhill

January 01, 2016

Neanderthals weren't the only ancient human. (Reuters/ Nikola Solic)

An ancient femur found in a Chinese cave is unlike any bone formerly discovered, suggesting it belonged to a previously unknown human species that lived alongside modern man just 14,000 years ago.

The distinctive shape of the bone indicates that the species would have walked differently from humans today, according to the New Scientist. And based on the size of the bone, the scientists behind the analysis report in their paper, published in PLOS One in December 2015, that an adult would have weighed 50kg, which is far smaller than other humans who lived at the time.

“When you put all the evidence together the femur comes out quite clearly resembling the early members of Homo,” Darren Curnoe, from the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia, who led the research team, told the New Scientist.

But while the earliest homo species lived around 2 million years ago and more recent humans, such as Neanderthals, became extinct some 40,000 years ago, researchers believe the newly discovered species would have lived far more recently, and alongside modern humans.

The 14,000-year-old bone fragment, which was found in the Muladong Cave in southwestern China in 1989 but was not studied for 25 years, has been painted with red clay, which is indicative of burial rituals. It seems to have been broken in a way that allows access to the bone marrow, and shows evidence of being butchered and being burned in a fire alongside other meat, according to the New Scientist.

Curnoe believes that homo sapiens mated with this newfound species, and possibly also ate them and used their bones as tools.

The theory is supported by bones discovered in Longlin cave in Guangxi Province in 1979, which Curnoe examined in 2012. These fossils were dated to 11,500 years ago and are thought to show a combination of homo sapiens traits and those of an archaic human.

Our understanding of mankind’s evolutionary roots is far from clear-cut, and this finding could indicate a new branch in human development. “If true, this would be rather spectacular and it would make the finds of truly global importance,” Michael Petraglia, co-director of the Centre for Asian Archeology at the University of Oxford, who wasn’t involved in the work, told the New Scientist.

But other paleoanthropologists believe the bone’s distinctive features come from variations within the species, rather than a distinct species. Chris Stringer, head of research into human origins at the Natural History Museum in London, told the Guardian that he is “cautious” about the discovery. “It is an isolated bone. It is not even half a femur,” he said.

Curnoe is hoping to extract DNA from the bones, to build evidence about the fossil’s evolutionary origins. For now, he told the Guardian, the discovery raises many more questions to be answered.

“The riddle of the Red Deer Cave people gets even more challenging now: Just who were these mysterious stone age people? Why did they survive so late? And why only in tropical southwest China?,” said Curnoe.

But the discovery wouldn’t be the first time scientists discovered the complexities of humans’ evolutionary roots. Earlier this year, researchers discovered 15 skeletons belonging to a new species of ancient human in South Africa. The homo sapiens evolutionary tree is starting to get crowded.

http://qz.com/585000/bone-discovery-suggests-a-mysterious-ancient-species-of-human-lived-alongside-our-ancestors/?utm_source=parVC
 

Occasionally

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Ancient history like this reminds me of outer space research.

Lots of money spent and all, but how does this relate to present day or enriching our lives now or in the future?

If this caveman research has purpose to learn about the DNA and come up with cures and such for present day humans then I'm all for it. If it's just to give reason to update new textbooks with a new category of prehistoric man, then to me it's a waste of time and resources.

For example, I work at a company, and get paid to do my job which at the end of the day is to sell products people use in their daily lives to help them get through their day and feel better. I'm not a brain surgeon or anything, but it's a modest job that has some purpose to help people with things they use.

Now if I scrapped that and got paid to learn about my ancient ancestors, and actually dug through enough ruins and caves and found out my great great great great grandpa was 4 ft tall and had a limp because his bones were different than present day humans..... who cares. And how does that help present day (or future society) get through their lives?
 

fuji

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The real article actually on the New Scientist site, plagiarized at the site twizz linked, is much better with much more information.
 

|2 /-\ | /|/

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Mar 5, 2015
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What if stuff like this helps us understand our genome better?

What if we were seeded from another palnet either on purpose or by accident. Some say a possibility exists that we came from Mars when an asteroid hit it causing a piece to be ejected and fall onto earth seeding earth with microbes.

What if we therefore understand evolution better, another piece, and how we can make our species better, more efficient, smarter. Would you not want to know how to improve your genome, how we evolved, all the species that were present, and maybe foresee where we are heading and predict the next evolutionary changes.

Some say our genome contains a lot of the answers embedded in the DNA. Who really knows, but one way to find our is through further research and discovery.


Ancient history like this reminds me of outer space research.

Lots of money spent and all, but how does this relate to present day or enriching our lives now or in the future?

If this caveman research has purpose to learn about the DNA and come up with cures and such for present day humans then I'm all for it. If it's just to give reason to update new textbooks with a new category of prehistoric man, then to me it's a waste of time and resources.

For example, I work at a company, and get paid to do my job which at the end of the day is to sell products people use in their daily lives to help them get through their day and feel better. I'm not a brain surgeon or anything, but it's a modest job that has some purpose to help people with things they use.

Now if I scrapped that and got paid to learn about my ancient ancestors, and actually dug through enough ruins and caves and found out my great great great great grandpa was 4 ft tall and had a limp because his bones were different than present day humans..... who cares. And how does that help present day (or future society) get through their lives?
 

Occasionally

Active member
May 22, 2011
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What if stuff like this helps us understand our genome better?

What if we were seeded from another palnet either on purpose or by accident. Some say a possibility exists that we came from Mars when an asteroid hit it causing a piece to be ejected and fall onto earth seeding earth with microbes.

What if we therefore understand evolution better, another piece, and how we can make our species better, more efficient, smarter. Would you not want to know how to improve your genome, how we evolved, all the species that were present, and maybe foresee where we are heading and predict the next evolutionary changes.

Some say our genome contains a lot of the answers embedded in the DNA. Who really knows, but one way to find our is through further research and discovery.
That's what I mean. If there is serious purpose in uses info like that to improve current/future day human lives, that's fine.

It's like hearing about nature finds. OK, a biologist just discovered through mass research the 512th species of frog. OK, now what?

OK, a team of people spent half a year digging through dirt and found out a 1,000 year old village was buried there. It has some old coins, vases and bones. OK, sounds interesting. Now what?
 

fuji

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Jan 31, 2005
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That's what I mean. If there is serious purpose in uses info like that to improve current/future day human lives, that's fine.

It's like hearing about nature finds. OK, a biologist just discovered through mass research the 512th species of frog. OK, now what?

OK, a team of people spent half a year digging through dirt and found out a 1,000 year old village was buried there. It has some old coins, vases and bones. OK, sounds interesting. Now what?
Often we don't find out "now what" until much later, but it sometimes turns out to be very important. A lot of discoveries that seemed like amusing trivialities at the time nevertheless were ground breaking.

What good did it actually do the early philosophers to discover that the world was round? Or that the sun doesn't orbit the earth? Amusing triviality at the time, crucial to a good deal of real technology now. They couldn't have foreseen satellites, etc.
 

FAST

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Mar 12, 2004
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That's what I mean. If there is serious purpose in uses info like that to improve current/future day human lives, that's fine.

It's like hearing about nature finds. OK, a biologist just discovered through mass research the 512th species of frog. OK, now what?

OK, a team of people spent half a year digging through dirt and found out a 1,000 year old village was buried there. It has some old coins, vases and bones. OK, sounds interesting. Now what?
Its all about keeping the UNEMPLOYABLE , employed, there is a very good example, on a few threads here.
How many climatologists/scientists, does it take to screw in a light bulb ?

And one close to home, a professor at U of T, studied icicles, for 15 years.

FAST
 

OddSox

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Sounds similar to Homo floresiensis -

Homo floresiensis ("Flores Man"; nicknamed "hobbit" and "Flo") is an extinct species widely believed to be in the genus Homo. The remains of an individual that would have stood about 3.5 feet (1.1 m) in height were discovered in 2003 on the island of Flores in Indonesia. Partial skeletons of nine individuals have been recovered, including one complete skull, referred to as "LB1".[1][2] These remains have been the subject of intense research to determine whether they represent a species distinct from modern humans. This hominin is remarkable for its small body and brain and for its survival until relatively recent times (possibly as recently as 12,000 years ago).[3] Recovered alongside the skeletal remains were stone tools from archaeological horizons ranging from 94,000 to 13,000 years ago. Some scholars suggest that the historical H. floresiensis may be connected by folk memory to ebu gogo myths prevalent on the isle of Flores.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_floresiensis
 

IM469

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Curnoe believes that homo sapiens mated with this newfound species, and possibly also ate them and used their bones as tools.
I take it when this species disappeared, homo sapiens turned to sheep ? :confused:
 

bishop

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When Faraday was asked by a royal family member if there would ever be any practical use for this new electricity Faraday has discovered, Faraday answered that he did not know.
 

MRBJX

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Jul 14, 2013
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Ancient history like this reminds me of outer space research.

Lots of money spent and all, but how does this relate to present day or enriching our lives now or in the future?
With this logic you might as well have stayed in your cave, you have no future.

If it's just to give reason to update new textbooks with a new category of prehistoric man, then to me it's a waste of time and resources.
Who does this? no one just does research in order to update text books

For example, I work at a company, and get paid to do my job which at the end of the day is to sell products people use in their daily lives to help them get through their day and feel better. I'm not a brain surgeon or anything, but it's a modest job that has some purpose to help people with things they use.

Now if I scrapped that and got paid to learn about my ancient ancestors, and actually dug through enough ruins and caves and found out my great great great great grandpa was 4 ft tall and had a limp because his bones were different than present day humans..... who cares. And how does that help present day (or future society) get through their lives?
Oh dear. So you can predict the future too? You do realize that everything we have today is a result of someone researching, digging holes, testing theories, speculating. That is technological progress. Could today have been predicted ... not unless youve got some oracle to the future on you. Not everything is about doing daily doings selling widgets to stumble through life.

Maybe watch Prometheus or 2001 a Space Odyssey or read a book like the History of Science, or The Selfish Gene, a Brief History of Time perhaps it'll help you understand life isn't about widgets and mundane day to day activities.
 

twizz

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Mar 8, 2014
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Ancient history like this reminds me of outer space research.

Lots of money spent and all, but how does this relate to present day or enriching our lives now or in the future?

If this caveman research has purpose to learn about the DNA and come up with cures and such for present day humans then I'm all for it. If it's just to give reason to update new textbooks with a new category of prehistoric man, then to me it's a waste of time and resources.

For example, I work at a company, and get paid to do my job which at the end of the day is to sell products people use in their daily lives to help them get through their day and feel better. I'm not a brain surgeon or anything, but it's a modest job that has some purpose to help people with things they use.

Now if I scrapped that and got paid to learn about my ancient ancestors, and actually dug through enough ruins and caves and found out my great great great great grandpa was 4 ft tall and had a limp because his bones were different than present day humans..... who cares. And how does that help present day (or future society) get through their lives?
People like you are what's wrong with the world. Reducing everything to a cost/benefit analysis is an excuse to sell needless junk.
 

FAST

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Mar 12, 2004
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People like you are what's wrong with the world. Reducing everything to a cost/benefit analysis is an excuse to sell needless junk.
We have been doing research into our past for what, 100 years,... name ONE benefit.

There is research being done about today,...that we can benefit today, and there's studying icicles for 15 years.

FAST
 

Occasionally

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May 22, 2011
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People like you are what's wrong with the world. Reducing everything to a cost/benefit analysis is an excuse to sell needless junk.
Not at all. Lots of stuff made and sold is useful. Yourself live in a home, probably have a car, but stuff at the store etc....

Who ever said everything is a cost/benefit analysis? I just don't want money wasted or people getting paid to do worthless things.

I also like to see immediate impact on daily lives. For example, for all the money companies and government use for frivolous things, why not donate more of it to help social programs or get homeless people off the st?

Or here's an idea, how about the government (who often has all kinds of money spent wastefully) help out people by having OHIP also cover more expenses within eye glass and dental care?

Pretty odd that Canada boasts about great medical care, yet important things like vision care and teeth are not on the list. I can waste a doctior's time seeing him for a lame cough that will go away in a weekend and that's covered. I have a painful root canal I have to do and it costs a bundle unless my company covers it.
 

oil&gas

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Ghawar
When Faraday was asked by a royal family member if there would ever be any practical use for this new electricity Faraday has discovered, Faraday answered that he did not know.
If memory serves, Faraday's reply to that question
was something like: "Sir, you can tax it.". I could be
wrong though.
 

MRBJX

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2013
1,158
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We have been doing research into our past for what, 100 years,... name ONE benefit.

There is research being done about today,...that we can benefit today, and there's studying icicles for 15 years.

FAST

how about that we're on the cusp of anhillating ourselves.

Oh, that and a tourism industry if you are looking for a money thing.

But lets have some perspective here, the golden globes was just on, none of those have had any benefit to you, what's their point? Why do you spend money to see their movies ?

You're acting like archeology and paleontology consume vast amounts of money and suck the life out of people.
 

MRBJX

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2013
1,158
112
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Not at all. Lots of stuff made and sold is useful. Yourself live in a home, probably have a car, but stuff at the store etc....

Who ever said everything is a cost/benefit analysis? I just don't want money wasted or people getting paid to do worthless things.

I also like to see immediate impact on daily lives. For example, for all the money companies and government use for frivolous things, why not donate more of it to help social programs or get homeless people off the st?

Or here's an idea, how about the government (who often has all kinds of money spent wastefully) help out people by having OHIP also cover more expenses within eye glass and dental care?

Pretty odd that Canada boasts about great medical care, yet important things like vision care and teeth are not on the list. I can waste a doctior's time seeing him for a lame cough that will go away in a weekend and that's covered. I have a painful root canal I have to do and it costs a bundle unless my company covers it.
Useful how?

The context of your posts is as if everytthing has to pass through a cost/benefit filter. Dont forget we - people -made money, its a tool, it is completely worthless, yet if you let it, it will gut you and leave you dead inside eating out all your natural curiosity, all your fun, as it pushes you through a cost benefit filter too.

immediate impact? what country are you in? the amount of legistaion on things means there is nothing immediate.

who cares about your root canal, why should I pay for it? You're of no immediate usefulness to me.

Catching on? :D

Were all in this together, not for a long time even, just a blink. Don't let money rule you, use it to help others.
 
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