A great part of Christmas Eve, especially if there are small children in your family

Aardvark154

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http://www.noradsanta.org/

Although somehow it was nicer in the days when they would make announcements on the radio news.

And my gratitude and appreciation to all in our Armed Forces who are pulling Mission Essential duty tonight and tomorrow.
 

danmand

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http://www.noradsanta.org/

Although somehow it was nicer in the days when they would make announcements on the radio news.

And my gratitude and appreciation to all in our Armed Forces who are pulling Mission Essential duty tonight and tomorrow.
Chrstimas is hardly the time to idolize the military/industrial complex. Why don't you address your gratitude to the outreach welfare workers who struggle (with insufficient budgets) to help the most disadvantaged members of our society?
 

Butler1000

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Danmand. I'm not sure if you grew up in Canada during the Cold War but what this tradition represented was a brief moment of levity and Joy for Armed services personel who were at that time monitoring for what many presumed was Nuclear war. It was a way to briefly put a human face on the horror of what we all thought was inevitable.

In a way it's no different then the soccer game that broke out between the lines in WW I. It is a reminder as well to all of what they stand on guard for, and a reminder of what's at stake so as not to go to war if possible.

It is far from a idolization. But instead a hope that one day tracking systems will ONLY have to be used for tracking Santa, and not enemy missles.

Have a Very Merry Christmas my Friend.
 

Aardvark154

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Butler you hit the nail on the head, and if I replied to Danmand's blather I'd be banned on Christmas.

Really NORAD Santa and appreciation for those in the military who have to be on duty over Christmas is idolization of the military/industrial complex. JM&J!
 
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danmand

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Danmand. I'm not sure if you grew up in Canada during the Cold War but what this tradition represented was a brief moment of levity and Joy for Armed services personel who were at that time monitoring for what many presumed was Nuclear war. It was a way to briefly put a human face on the horror of what we all thought was inevitable.

In a way it's no different then the soccer game that broke out between the lines in WW I. It is a reminder as well to all of what they stand on guard for, and a reminder of what's at stake so as not to go to war if possible.

It is far from a idolization. But instead a hope that one day tracking systems will ONLY have to be used for tracking Santa, and not enemy missles.

Have a Very Merry Christmas my Friend.
And a Very Merry Christmas to you.

I did live through the cold war time, and we all believed the big con, perpetrated by the military/industrial complex that the all powerful USSR was hellbent on conquering Denmark, Canada and any other country.

We have now all learned that the truth was quite different from this lie, and that the USSR struggled to keep up with the west and finally gave up.

It was indeed very different from the soccer game during WWI, in that the trackers were fooled by the M/I complex to look for ghosts.
 

Aardvark154

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I did live through the cold war time, and we all believed the big con, perpetrated by the military/industrial complex that the all powerful USSR was hellbent on conquering Denmark, Canada and any other country.

We have now all learned that the truth was quite different from this lie, and that the USSR struggled to keep up with the west and finally gave up.
So you believe that Soviet Communist theorists, and the political leaders of the Soviet State were all massive liars, unfortunately I don't believe that you think of them as liars in the way that most of us and most Russians do.

Not having a political and economic system that was as good as the Wests doesn't mean that they didn't believe the palaver that they spouted.
 

SkyRider

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Winning the Cold War meant that over 200 million people in Eastern Europe and the former satellites of the Soviet Empire were freed from communist oppression.
 

danmand

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David Stockman was an insider during the Reagan years. Read his view of the time:


Christmas 2015—–Why There Is No Peace On Earth

by David Stockman • December 25, 2015


After the Berlin Wall fell in November 1989 and the death of the Soviet Union was confirmed two years later when Boris Yeltsin courageously stood down the red army tanks in front of Moscow’s White House, a dark era in human history came to an end.

The world had descended into what had been a 77-year global war, incepting with the mobilization of the armies of old Europe in August 1914. If you want to count bodies, 150 million were killed by all the depredations which germinated in the Great War, its foolish aftermath at Versailles, and the march of history into the world war and cold war which followed inexorably thereupon.

To wit, upwards of 8% of the human race was wiped-out during that span. The toll encompassed the madness of trench warfare during 1914-1918; the murderous regimes of Soviet and Nazi totalitarianism that rose from the ashes of the Great War and Versailles; and then the carnage of WWII and all the lesser (unnecessary) wars and invasions of the Cold War including Korea and Vietnam.

I have elaborated more fully on this proposition in “The Epochal Consequences Of Woodrow Wilson’s War“, but the seminal point cannot be gainsaid. The end of the cold war meant world peace was finally at hand, yet 25 years later there is still no peace because Imperial Washington confounds it.

In fact, the War Party entrenched in the nation’s capital is dedicated to economic interests and ideological perversions that guarantee perpetual war; they ensure endless waste on armaments and the inestimable death and human suffering that stems from 21st century high tech warfare and the terrorist blowback it inherently generates among those upon which the War Party inflicts its violent hegemony.

So there was a virulent threat to peace still lurking on the Potomac after the 77-year war ended. The great general and president, Dwight Eisenhower, had called it the “military-industrial complex” in his farewell address, but that memorable phrase had been abbreviated by his speechwriters, who deleted the word “congressional” in a gesture of comity to the legislative branch.

So restore Ike’s deleted reference to the pork barrels and Sunday afternoon warriors of Capitol Hill and toss in the legions of beltway busybodies that constituted the civilian branches of the cold war armada (CIA, State, AID etc.) and the circle would have been complete. It constituted the most awesome machine of warfare and imperial hegemony since the Roman legions bestrode most of the civilized world.

In a word, the real threat to peace circa 1990 was that Pax Americana would not go away quietly in the night.

In fact, during the past 25 years Imperial Washington has lost all memory that peace was ever possible at the end of the cold war. Today it is as feckless, misguided and bloodthirsty as were Berlin, Paris, St. Petersburg, Vienna and London in August 1914.

Back then a few months after the slaughter had been unleashed, soldiers along the western front broke into spontaneous truces of Christmas celebration, singing and even exchange of gifts. For a brief moment they wondered why they were juxtaposed in lethal combat along the jaws of hell.

The truthful answer is that there was no good reason. The world had stumbled into war based on false narratives and the institutional imperatives of military mobilization plans, alliances and treaties arrayed into a doomsday machine and petty short-term diplomatic maneuvers and political calculus. Yet it took more than three-quarters of a century for all the consequential impacts and evils to be purged from the life of the planet.

The peace that was lost last time has not been regained this time for the same reasons. Historians can readily name the culprits from 100 years ago, such as the German general staff’s plan for a lightening mobilization and strike on the western front called the Schlieffen Plan or Britain’s secret commitments to France to guard the North Sea while the latter covered the Mediterranean.

Since these casus belli of 1914 were criminally trivial in light of all that metastisized thereafter, it might do well to name the institutions and false narratives that block the return of peace today. The fact is, these impediments are even more contemptible than the forces that crushed the Christmas truces one century ago.
 

Aardvark154

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Danmand you do realize that Director of the Office of Management and Budget is but a middling U.S. political appointment. It doesn't even rise to the level of Assistant Secretary.
 

danmand

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Danmand you do realize that Director of the Office of Management and Budget is but a middling U.S. political appointment. It doesn't even rise to the level of Assistant Secretary.
Attack the messenger is the only schtick you have in your debating arsenal.
 

danmand

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Aardvark154

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Oh you mean as opposed to mindlessly quoting David Stockman and Noam Chomsky on areas where they have no expertise.
Exactly
Thank you for being honest enough to admit that David Stockman and Noam Chomsky have no expertise in the areas about which you quote them and that you quote them incessantly.

It is said that Confession is good for the soul. But most of us already were aware of your incessant quoting and their lack of expertise.
 

danmand

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Thank you for being honest enough to admit that David Stockman and Noam Chomsky have no expertise in the areas about which you quote them and that you quote them incessantly.

It is said that Confession is good for the soul. But most of us already were aware of your incessant quoting and their lack of expertise.
Negative, exactly REFERS TO THE FOLLOWING:

Attack the messenger is the only schtick you have in your debating arsenal.


PS: only a complete fool or a misguided soul like yourself, after the last decade, still believes that the Pentagon and the Neocons knows best how to execute foreign policy.
 

Butler1000

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Actually danmand he isn't the Messenger. That would imply he is only a delivery boy. In fact he is the Author. And as a result one can question the how, where, when, and by who and what he came by his opinions.

We can also question his overstating of his position, and how much access he had to information, especially if he is giving the impression he was an insider.

But messenger.....no actually in this case YOU are the delivery boy.......
 

danmand

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Actually danmand he isn't the Messenger. That would imply he is only a delivery boy. In fact he is the Author. And as a result one can question the how, where, when, and by who and what he came by his opinions.

We can also question his overstating of his position, and how much access he had to information, especially if he is giving the impression he was an insider.
Fair enough, but you will notice that Aardie NEVER questions the opinions of an author, how, where, when, and by who and what he came by his opinions.

He only attacks the author.

And there is no doubt that both David Stockman and Paul Craig Roberts were insiders in the Reagan administration.
 

Aardvark154

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And there is no doubt that both David Stockman and Paul Craig Roberts were insiders in the Reagan administration.
They were mid-level officials, one headed the office that prepares the budget that the President recommends to Congress, the other was an Assistant Treasury Secretary, neither of them has foreign policy or politico-military experience.

However, despite their lack of expertise, you constantly quote them along with Noam Chomsky on foreign policy and politico-military affairs. Indeed I get heartily tired of rewriting point by point refutations of cut and paste arguments, if you choose to see that as failure to question the opinions of your multitude of cut and pastes, so be it.

Also may I point out that it is entirely typical of you to hijack a thread about what a nice tradition NORAD Santa is, and the gratitude we owe our Armed Forces, particularly when they are away from their family's and friends during the holidays.
 
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