After Singapore Fell

[Samurai Joey]

I stand by my lack of faith in the defense Minister.

Gangs Detective�� woohoo. So he chased punks around lower east Vancouver. Not something that helps a resume for a national minister.

And the award in afghan----- big deal--- those are handed out like candy. Distinction while serving would be the likes of General Patton, good war leaders.

Sabjan likely drove a HumVee around the dessert. Now he's strategizing world wars... Or should I say ignoring them (Isis) Harpers may have been bad.... But you would think the smart Liberals might have improved.

fmahovalich, if you don't have faith in the Defense Minister, there isn't anything anyone here can say that will help with you that. But what you're doing here in this thread is denigrating his experiences as a Vancouver detective and his service to this country in Afghanistan.

He may not be a general, but you don't have to be a general to serve with distinction. I used to work as a civilian contractor providing technical consulting services for the Canadian military, and I've worked with various members of military of different ranks -- I would never say that these men & women did not serve with distinction.

 

[Samurai Joey]

I don't know the breakdown of who signed on with the Japanese. But I do think that the fact of religious affiliation may have been very important. Religion is politics in India - still! Just ask the Sikhs who were hunted down and burned alive by Hindu mobs in Delhi a few years ago while the police stood and cheered.

Both Muslims and Hindus had popular pro independence parties in the 1930's. I do not think that the Sikhs had one. So that alone is a huge difference.

I was researching online about anti-Sikh violence, and the last major act of communal violence against Sikhs in Delhi was back in 1984. Were there news reports of more recent acts of violence against Sikhs that I'm not aware of?

 

[T.O.tourist]

Harpers <Ministers of National Defense> may have been bad.... But you would think the smart Liberals might have improved.

By choosing someone that has actually served in defense of our country I think they have improved the choice.

 

[Big_jo]

Okay guys let me tell one thing. Regarding sajjan defence minister, he was appreciated by USA army and cia.
yes it is true that soldiers in Singapore decided not to turn. Their loyalty and courage can not be questioned if some one has doubts google "battle of saragarhi" 21 sikhs fought against 10-15k afgans rebels despite being ordered to withdraw. Three interesting stories about that battle. 1st one of the 21 soldiers wasYoung thin skiny lean Sikh. Upon seeing seeing him English officer said how he he can fight. He has no strength or muscle. Hearing this that Sikh soldier replied
To fight person needs courage not strength and courage comes from heart not muscles. 2nd the last remaining Sikh soldier
Was burned alive in the room he was holding because he was causing so many casualties. 3rd all 21 Sikh soldiers were awarded Victoria cross(highest military honour at that time) for their b**********y. british were so impressed with Sikhs and gorkhas that they were allowed their own regiments. Now some will say that they were old times. Please watch sikh soldier
In USA army dancing on streets of baghdad during recent iraq war. Why they are respected so much: in 18th century sikh general named hari singh nalwa won Afghanistan city named Namoor(city was never ever conquered before) sikhs did not harmed inncoent. One og themost beautiful local girl asked the general that she was impressed with his b**********y and rightinous that she wanted a son from him. Tbe general replied that lady you can call me your son and you have your wish to have a son like me.sikhs are respected in Afghanistan even now. And people wonder why sajjan singh was so respected and feared in Afghanistan. Still have doubts please feel free to ask me


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[Big_jo]

https://m.youtube.com/results?q=bbc sikh documentary&sm=1
BBC documentary about Sikhs in world wars.https://m.youtube.com/results?q=bbc sikh documentary ww1&sm=3

 

[SkyRider]

I was researching online about anti-Sikh violence, and the last major act of communal violence against Sikhs in Delhi was back in 1984.

The Golden Temple massacre in 1984.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star

In my childhood I heard amazing stories by living Canadian veterans of both WW I and WW II of Sikh b**********y on the battlefield. I have no reason to doubt their stories. I just wanted to learn more about the aftermath of the fall of Singapore and the 10,000 soldiers of the British Indian Army who remained loyal to their oath and refused to "turn".

 

[oil&gas]

An observation I made from my rather limited
experience in life in the British Empire is that the
Brits seemed to view the Sikh as a more trustworthy
and reliable ethnic group. There was a time in colonial
Hong Kong when police guard from India were almost
exclusively Sikhs.

 

[onthebottom]

I remember reading in one of Churchill's books how angry he was that Singapore fell so easily. I don't think he used those words but my recollection is he was really pissed.

 

[SkyRider]

I remember reading in one of Churchill's books how angry he was that Singapore fell so easily. I don't think he used those words but my recollection is he was really pissed.

There is a lot of debate about the fall of Singapore. In some of those debates, people blame Churchill for the defeat. Most historians consider the fall of Singapore as the greatest British defeat in WW II and possibly one of the greatest ever. Most blame poor British military leadership for the defeat.

 

[oldjones]

My interest in Sikhs was recently rekindled when I heard that several Sikhs were elected to the House of Commons.
http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/na...story-in-canada-federal-elections/148783.html

Our new Minister for National Defense is the Honourable Harjit Singh Sajjan, a Sikh. Unless our new PM interferes, I have no doubt he will be an excellent minister. He will be featured on CTV W-5 this Saturday.
http://www.canada.ca/en/government/ministers/harjit-singh-sajjan.html

I guess you weren't so politically aware in 1993 when the first Sikh MP was elected. The point is not to imagine he deserved election because of his religion, any more than to believe it was religion that made the Defence Minister the best, or even a good pick.

You could be on firmer ground co-relating stats about belief and other group actions like choices to fight, surrender or change allegiance, but those are only statistical truths about imperfectly defined groups (if they're true at all) and have zero to do with any individual who you only imagine you know by their religion.

 

[dirkd101]

Back to the original question here.

I don't have a definitive answer, but what you have stated is certainly plausible.

The Allies used Japanese soldiers after the war, in certain areas, to do their bidding. These places were "colonial" hot spots, so it isn't outside the realms of possibilities.

 

[barnacler]

As per usual, you are not being very helpful. He is asking for confirmation on a story he heard as a child, not making the political or religious statement you so desperately want him to "back up".

Exactly my thought.

People with one-track agendas that they MUST inject into EVERY discussion are tiresome bores.

 

[Promo]

I guess you weren't so politically aware in 1993 when the first Sikh MP was elected. The point is not to imagine he deserved election because of his religion, any more than to believe it was religion that made the Defence Minister the best, or even a good pick.

You could be on firmer ground co-relating stats about belief and other group actions like choices to fight, surrender or change allegiance, but those are only statistical truths about imperfectly defined groups (if they're true at all) and have zero to do with any individual who you only imagine you know by their religion.

Would you please just stop being a dick. You do this all the time in various threads.

He said the recent election rekindled his interest.
He never said any of these people deserved election due to their religion.
He never said Sajjan would be the best Defense Minister choice due to his religion, Rocky tried to point out his past qualifications that could perhaps qualify him.

Your last sentence is meaningless. Multiple unfinished ideas in a run-on sentence. None of the ideas having anything to do what Rocky was discussing. Instead of trying to sound intelligent, which you are failing at miserably, why not just get to the point and write in plain English?

 

[SkyRider]

The Allies used Japanese soldiers after the war, in certain areas, to do their bidding. These places were "colonial" hot spots, so it isn't outside the realms of possibilities.

I wasn't aware of this fact (above quote).

What I do know is that the war in the Pacific ended so suddenly that the British troops were miles away from Singapore so they asked the Japanese occupation force to maintain order in the city (sort of ironical) until the Brits could take possession. The actual return of Singapore was done without firing a shot. If we had to take Singapore back by force, it would have been a bloody battle (e.g. Manila).

 

[oil&gas]

Singapore was already into its fourth year of occupation
when Japan surrendered. It was the logical thing to do
for the British to ask local Japanese soldiers to maintain
order when administration of the occupying force had already
been in place for some time. Japanese stationed in Hong Kong
was also asked to do the same.

 

[RandyAndy2]

The Allies used Japanese soldiers after the war, in certain areas, to do their bidding.

This doesn't make sense. Japan's post-war constitution prohibits their deployment of troops outside their borders. Where were these Japanese soldiers deployed, and when?

 

[wilbur]

The Sikh combat ethic was indeed because of their religion, including unwavering loyalty. Although a minority in India, Sikhs joined the British Indian Army at rates many times greater than other groups. The bracelet and kirpan are symbolic of Sikh determination to survive slaughter during the centuries following the establishment of their sect. To die in battle became the utmost and noblest sacrifice. There were German Army reports during WW1 on the Western Front of Sikh units running out of ammunition, then drawing their sabres and charging the enemy.

I watched the big independence day parade in New Delhi once. At the head of the parade were open top vehicles carrying Indian Army heroes. The first lot were winners of the Victoria Cross mostly turbaned Sikhs (post independence heroes came later).

An ex-officer of the Pakistan Armed Forces told me once that the Indian Army had a quota on Sikh Generals of 10% of the General Staff. Without a quota (limit), all Indian Army Generals would be Sikhs, he said 'because they were so good'.

 

[SkyRider]

This doesn't make sense. Japan's post-war constitution prohibits their deployment of troops outside their borders. Where were these Japanese soldiers deployed, and when?

Maybe the poster was referring to the Japanese soldiers who continued fighting after the official surrender?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_holdout

 

[oldjones]

Would you please just stop being a dick. You do this all the time in various threads.

He said the recent election rekindled his interest.
He never said any of these people deserved election due to their religion.
He never said Sajjan would be the best Defense Minister choice due to his religion, Rocky tried to point out his past qualifications that could perhaps qualify him.

Your last sentence is meaningless. Multiple unfinished ideas in a run-on sentence. None of the ideas having anything to do what Rocky was discussing. Instead of trying to sound intelligent, which you are failing at miserably, why not just get to the point and write in plain English?

Of course I'll be happy to parse that last sentence if you really found it beyond your ability to comprehend, but when you butt into an ongoing exchange, I think you should be aware how slinging insults like 'dick' reflects back on you.

If your 'points' were relevant to either Sky's views about Sikhs and other religions in WWII or mine on racism and bigotry, you might have been more persuasive.

 

[anon1]

This doesn't make sense. Japan's post-war constitution prohibits their deployment of troops outside their borders. Where were these Japanese soldiers deployed, and when?

He's referring to the Allies' use of POW Japanese soldiers as "policemen" in far east colonies immediately after the war.
The European allies had promised independence to their many colonies in Asia if they would come and save their asses in the war against the Axis.
Post-war they wanted to renege on the promise. Since their troops were few and scattered, they resorted to using POW Japanese soldiers to maintain colonialist control.
That's why there was a Vietnam War.