Pickering Angels

Top scientist resigns admitting gobal warming is a big scam!

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,708
22,201
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I didn't say the survey was wrong. I said the environmental zealot's idiotic conclusions were wrong.

I say the author is wrong when he claims that 66% support is "consistent" with "high levels of consensus among scientists."
.
Thank you for confirming that you are quoting a survey that you think is wrong.
It really takes a incredible amount of hubris to quote a survey while claiming that you know better then its authors.

But its just like you claiming that you know better then 97% of climatologists and that you know better then the entirety of the AAAS.
May I once again link you the wiki page on Dunning-Kruger effect?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Let the record stand, moviefan-2 believes he understands climatology better then 97% of climatologists, understands science better then the entirety of the AAAS and even understands surveys better then those who analyze them.
 

bishop

Banned
Nov 26, 2002
1,800
0
36
Sure, and a boiling pot of water has chaos in it, you can't predict fluid dynamics well enough to predict the path of any one molecule.
But you can most definitely predict that the water will boil and then boil off.
First of all while I know nothing about fluid dynamics, I know it has no ability to predict anything about individual water molecules, not because fluid dynamics is some fake science but because the scope of fluid dynamics is not individual water molecules. If you want to know the position of individual molecules of water you do not use fluid dynamics.

All real systems are chaotic systems, and all systems can be modeled based on individual interactions of molecules if we are talking about real matter, at least in principle. I say at least in principle because the best simulation that we can do is maybe 1000 molecules of cesium, and that would take a supercomputer to do it. We have not yet simulated enough molecules to fill the head of the pin yet, there must be a billion molecules of shit that can fit on the head of a pin.

Now if you want to track individual molecules of water then you need to simulate individual water molecules, that is a chaotic system, it is chaotic because it should be apparent to you that the initial position of the water molecules influences the final position of the water molecule.

Now thankfully some really smart people came up with fluid dynamics, which I do not know anything about, but I would hazard to guess that it is a closed form solution, any solution worth it's salt is a closed form solution. If you need to know stuff like the flow rate or the pressure of the water, then there is some nice simple equation that you can use to find it. Now if you need to know the position of each molecule then you need to do a full simulation of each and every water molecule.

If fluid dynamics was not available then you have no recourse but to do a full simulation (simulate all individual water molecules) to find out stuff like flow rate and pressure. Because fluid dynamics has closed form equations, we can just plug numbers into a simple equation and not need to simulate all the water molecules.

Now I am unaware of any closed form solution for climate, believe me if it was easy to find closed form solutions then it would have been done a long time ago. Without a closed form solution we have to simulate climate down to all the individual interactions of each particle in a climate system or atleast maybe in chunks of say a billion atoms, of course we can not do that with current computer technology. This is why I have said in the past that we need quantum computers to simulate climate to a necessary degree to draw conclusions, I am not saying we need quantum computers just because it is a cool thing to say.

Now I am not sure if closed form solution is the proper term, I know of systems which are very well described by equations but to solve it is an iterative process and not what I considered closed form, an AC power system simulation is an example of an iterative solution. I guess by closed form, I mean an equation that can be written down on a single piece of paper, or somewhere in that vicinity.

E=MC^2 that is a closed form solution, you in principle do not need to use that equation, you can find the energy of any mass by simulating the fission/fusion process individual atoms and if your simulation is rigorous then the answer you get is the exact same answer as if you use E=MC^2 in the first place. Now solving E=MC^2 takes maybe 10 seconds to find E, doing it by simulating individual molecules of matter would take all the computer power in the world and then some for maybe at best a million molecules of something.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,708
22,201
113
First of all while I know nothing about fluid dynamics, I know it has no ability to predict anything about individual water molecules, not because fluid dynamics is some fake science but because the scope of fluid dynamics is not individual water molecules. If you want to know the position of individual molecules of water you do not use fluid dynamics.

All real systems are chaotic systems, and all systems can be modeled based on individual interactions of molecules if we are talking about real matter, at least in principle. I say at least in principle because the best simulation that we can do is maybe 1000 molecules of cesium, and that would take a supercomputer to do it. We have not yet simulated enough molecules to fill the head of the pin yet, there must be a billion molecules of shit that can fit on the head of a pin.

Now if you want to track individual molecules of water then you need to simulate individual water molecules, that is a chaotic system, it is chaotic because it should be apparent to you that the initial position of the water molecules influences the final position of the water molecule.

Now thankfully some really smart people came up with fluid dynamics, which I do not know anything about, but I would hazard to guess that it is a closed form solution, any solution worth it's salt is a closed form solution. If you need to know stuff like the flow rate or the pressure of the water, then there is some nice simple equation that you can use to find it. Now if you need to know the position of each molecule then you need to do a full simulation of each and every water molecule.

If fluid dynamics was not available then you have no recourse but to do a full simulation (simulate all individual water molecules) to find out stuff like flow rate and pressure. Because fluid dynamics has closed form equations, we can just plug numbers into a simple equation and not need to simulate all the water molecules.

Now I am unaware of any closed form solution for climate, believe me if it was easy to find closed form solutions then it would have been done a long time ago. Without a closed form solution we have to simulate climate down to all the individual interactions of each particle in a climate system or atleast maybe in chunks of say a billion atoms, of course we can not do that with current computer technology. This is why I have said in the past that we need quantum computers to simulate climate to a necessary degree to draw conclusions, I am not saying we need quantum computers just because it is a cool thing to say.

Now I am not sure if closed form solution is the proper term, I know of systems which are very well described by equations but to solve it is an iterative process and not what I considered closed form, an AC power system simulation is an example of an iterative solution. I guess by closed form, I mean an equation that can be written down on a single piece of paper, or somewhere in that vicinity.

E=MC^2 that is a closed form solution, you in principle do not need to use that equation, you can find the energy of any mass by simulating the fission/fusion process individual atoms and if your simulation is rigorous then the answer you get is the exact same answer as if you use E=MC^2 in the first place. Now solving E=MC^2 takes maybe 10 seconds to find E, doing it by simulating individual molecules of matter would take all the computer power in the world and then some for maybe at best a million molecules of something.
Now, can we predict whether a pot will boil and when it will boil?
Thats the next question.
 

Bud Plug

Sexual Appliance
Aug 17, 2001
5,069
0
0
I have to the extent that one or two looney scientists who are either incompetent or have sold their degrees to the devil do not maker a dent against the overwhelming worldwide consensus of independent research of accredited scientists and organizations.

My video to you:
The irony of this video is that first he argues that "facts are not open to debate" and then (humorously, of course) he tries to make his point by suggesting something is a fact if the overwhelming majority of people (in that field) say its a fact.

I doubt that any leading scientist of his day was in the mainstream of opinion. It's only over time that we've come to accept that the world isn't flat and the sun doesn't revolve around the earth.

This debate will be resolved on the merits of the respective arguments, not by a show of hands (or lab coats and clip boards in this case).
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
63
Thank you for confirming that you are quoting a survey that you think is wrong.
False.

The survey is correct. The environmental zealot's assertion that 66% support is "consistent" with the claims of a "97% consensus" is wrong.

You keep evading the question: Do you think 66% support is the same as a "97% consensus"?
 

IM469

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2012
11,134
2,465
113
First of all while I know nothing about fluid dynamics, I know it has no ability to predict anything about individual water molecules, not because fluid dynamics is some fake science but because the scope of fluid dynamics is not individual water molecules. If you want to know the position of individual molecules of water you do not use fluid dynamics.

All real systems are chaotic systems, and all systems can be modeled based on individual interactions of molecules if we are talking about real matter, at least in principle. I say at least in principle because the best simulation that we can do is maybe 1000 molecules of cesium, and that would take a supercomputer to do it. We have not yet simulated enough molecules to fill the head of the pin yet, there must be a billion molecules of shit that can fit on the head of a pin.

Now if you want to track individual molecules of water then you need to simulate individual water molecules, that is a chaotic system, it is chaotic because it should be apparent to you that the initial position of the water molecules influences the final position of the water molecule.

Now thankfully some really smart people came up with fluid dynamics, which I do not know anything about, but I would hazard to guess that it is a closed form solution, any solution worth it's salt is a closed form solution. If you need to know stuff like the flow rate or the pressure of the water, then there is some nice simple equation that you can use to find it. Now if you need to know the position of each molecule then you need to do a full simulation of each and every water molecule.

If fluid dynamics was not available then you have no recourse but to do a full simulation (simulate all individual water molecules) to find out stuff like flow rate and pressure. Because fluid dynamics has closed form equations, we can just plug numbers into a simple equation and not need to simulate all the water molecules.

Now I am unaware of any closed form solution for climate, believe me if it was easy to find closed form solutions then it would have been done a long time ago. Without a closed form solution we have to simulate climate down to all the individual interactions of each particle in a climate system or atleast maybe in chunks of say a billion atoms, of course we can not do that with current computer technology. This is why I have said in the past that we need quantum computers to simulate climate to a necessary degree to draw conclusions, I am not saying we need quantum computers just because it is a cool thing to say.

Now I am not sure if closed form solution is the proper term, I know of systems which are very well described by equations but to solve it is an iterative process and not what I considered closed form, an AC power system simulation is an example of an iterative solution. I guess by closed form, I mean an equation that can be written down on a single piece of paper, or somewhere in that vicinity.

E=MC^2 that is a closed form solution, you in principle do not need to use that equation, you can find the energy of any mass by simulating the fission/fusion process individual atoms and if your simulation is rigorous then the answer you get is the exact same answer as if you use E=MC^2 in the first place. Now solving E=MC^2 takes maybe 10 seconds to find E, doing it by simulating individual molecules of matter would take all the computer power in the world and then some for maybe at best a million molecules of something.
Lot's of writing but ... You forgot air pressure - the boiling point of water is dependent on air pressure (in this case altitude):


I'm a little confused E=MC^2 for changing the physical state of water. When E=MC^2 is utilised - there will be no water to boil, it will have turned into energy ... a lot of energy.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,708
22,201
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False.

The survey is correct.
Then you agree that the consensus view supports the IPCC findings on anthropogenic climate change.
The results presented in the PBL-study are consistent with similar studies, which all find high levels of consensus among scientists, especially among scientists who publish more often in the peer-reviewed climate literature.
http://www.pbl.nl/en/faq-for-the-article-scientists-views-about-attribution-of-global-warming

Time for you to stop 'splitting hairs' as bishop put it.
You just admitted that the findings of this survey are correct, the consensus supports the IPCC findings.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
63
Then you agree that the consensus view supports the IPCC findings on anthropogenic climate change.

http://www.pbl.nl/en/faq-for-the-article-scientists-views-about-attribution-of-global-warming

Time for you to stop 'splitting hairs' as bishop put it.
You just admitted that the findings of this survey are correct, the consensus supports the IPCC findings.
More blatant dishonesty and another evasion.

Yes or no: Do you think 66% support is the same thing as a "97% consensus"?

Answer the question.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,708
22,201
113
False.

The survey is correct.
More blatant dishonesty and another evasion.
Blatant dishonesty?

You are the one quoting a survey but claiming its author is wrong:
The environmental zealot's assertion.... is wrong.
You said the survey is correct, here are the official findings of the survey.
The results presented in the PBL-study are consistent with similar studies, which all find high levels of consensus among scientists, especially among scientists who publish more often in the peer-reviewed climate literature.
http://www.pbl.nl/en/faq-for-the-article-scientists-views-about-attribution-of-global-warming

Stop splitting hairs and admit that you are wrong.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
63
Yes or no: Do you think 66% support is the same thing as a "97% consensus"?

Answer the question.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,708
22,201
113
Answer the question.
Stop trying to split hairs, as bishop says.

Just accept the words of the author of the survey.
The results presented in the PBL-study are consistent with similar studies, which all find high levels of consensus among scientists, especially among scientists who publish more often in the peer-reviewed climate literature.
http://www.pbl.nl/en/faq-for-the-article-scientists-views-about-attribution-of-global-warming

Its totally lame that you quote a paper and accuse its authors of lying at the same time.
Just stop splitting hairs and admit you are wrong.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
63
Yes or no: Do you think 66% support is the same thing as a "97% consensus"?

Answer the question.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,708
22,201
113
Yes or no
Yes or no.
Did you not say the survey is correct?

Yes or no, are these not the findings of the survey, as stated by the author of the survey?
The results presented in the PBL-study are consistent with similar studies, which all find high levels of consensus among scientists, especially among scientists who publish more often in the peer-reviewed climate literature.
http://www.pbl.nl/en/faq-for-the-article-scientists-views-about-attribution-of-global-warming
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
27,289
7,952
113
Room 112
You are right, using logic and reasoning should be reserved only for those with PHDs, anyone who dares use it without a PHD is mentally ill.

So basically as part of your desperate attempt to convince the world of AGW, you are demonizing logic and reasoning.
That's what AGW alarmists do. Logic and reason isn't in their vocabulary.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
171
63
Yes or no, are these not the findings of the survey, as stated by the author of the survey?
No, they are not. That's just the bullshit spin from the environmental zealot.

Answer the question.

Yes or no: Do you think 66% support is the same thing as a "97% consensus"?
 

bishop

Banned
Nov 26, 2002
1,800
0
36
Now, can we predict whether a pot will boil and when it will boil?
Thats the next question.
Again I know nothing about fluid dynamics, I assume you mean can we predict when water will boil, if so then the answer is yes.

Now, I have no idea why you would ask a this question that has such an obvious answer, my guess is that you are waiting for me to say "yes" and then you will say water is intrinsically a chaotic system so if we can predict the boiling point of water then we can predict stuff about the weather in much the same way. If that is indeed what you are after, then I will point you back to my post because I have addressed why we can make predictions about water and not make predictions about weather.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,708
22,201
113
Again I know nothing about fluid dynamics, I assume you mean can we predict when water will boil, if so then the answer is yes.

Now, I have no idea why you would ask a this question that has such an obvious answer, my guess is that you are waiting for me to say "yes" and then you will say water is intrinsically a chaotic system so if we can predict the boiling point of water then we can predict stuff about the weather in much the same way. If that is indeed what you are after, then I will point you back to my post because I have addressed why we can make predictions about water and not make predictions about weather.
The weather is a bit more like fluid dynamics, very hard to predict molecules behaviour like its very difficult to predict where a cold front will go.
The climate is a bit more like the whole pot, we know that if we add more CO2 it will create more heat, and that is what the IPCC predicts.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,708
22,201
113
The survey is correct.
Yes or no:
Yes or no:
Are these not the findings of the survey:
The results presented in the PBL-study are consistent with similar studies, which all find high levels of consensus among scientists, especially among scientists who publish more often in the peer-reviewed climate literature.
http://www.pbl.nl/en/faq-for-the-article-scientists-views-about-attribution-of-global-warming
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts