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President Is Dead Wrong About Climate Change: Nobel Prize Winning Scientist

PornAddict

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Frankfooter answer this question!!!

Does the "consensus" on "anthropogenic climate change":

1) Only include scientists who believe that man-made emissions have been the dominant cause of warming since 1950?

Or

2) Include scientists who believe that natural factors have been the dominant cause of warming since 1950?
 

Moviefan-2

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Oct 17, 2011
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No.
You said....
For anyone who believes in evidence-based conclusions, this is all the proof we need that Groggy/Frankfooter is a total loon.

He begins his post by saying "No" in response to my assertion that "The links confirm that I told the truth." My quote refers to my statements about the AGW supporters' positions on the NOAA paper.

He then proceeds to provide quotes and links on a totally different subject (the "97% consensus" claim vs. the NOAA's data).

What a nut job.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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The same lies told over and over.

I said the results confirm there is no consensus.
Here are the results of those studies as reported by the authors of those studies.
We found high levels of expert consensus on human-caused climate change.
http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/...rts-poll-of-meteorologists-on-climate-change/

and
The results presented in the PBL-study are consistent with similar studies, which all find high levels of consensus among scientists, especially among scientists who publish more often in the peer-reviewed climate literature.
http://www.pbl.nl/en/faq-for-the-article-scientists-views-about-attribution-of-global-warming

You lied about both of those studies.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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Frankfooter answer this question!!!

Does the "consensus" on "anthropogenic climate change":

1) Only include scientists who believe that man-made emissions have been the dominant cause of warming since 1950?

Or

2) Include scientists who believe that natural factors have been the dominant cause of warming since 1950?
Yes, Frankfooter, answer the question.

You claim there's a "consensus." It's impossible to believe there's a "consensus" if you have no idea what it is the scientists are supporting.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Yes, Frankfooter, answer the question.

You claim there's a "consensus." It's impossible to believe there's a "consensus" if you have no idea what it is the scientists are supporting.
NASA lays it down clearly:
Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals1 show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree: Climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities. In addition, most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position. The following is a partial list of these organizations, along with links to their published statements and a selection of related resources.
http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

That is, 97% of those who are actively studying and publishing research on climatology support the consensus view on anthropogenic climate change.
 

Frankfooter

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So your only 'evidence' that NOAA is 'cooking the books' comes from wattsupwiththat and some other denier blog?
Are you willing to stake your reputation and understanding of climate science on the work of Watts and his site?

Tell me now, do you really trust the work of Watts more then you trust all of NASA, NOAA and AAAS?
 

PornAddict

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NASA lays it down clearly:

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

That is, 97% of those who are actively studying and publishing research on climatology support the consensus view on anthropogenic climate change.
About that overwhelming 97-98% number of scientists that say there is a climate consensus…

Larry Bell writes in his weekly Forbes column about that often repeated but less than truthy “98% of all scientists” statistic.
Supposedly, this was such an easy and quick to do survey, it was a no-brainer according to the two University of Illinois researchers who conducted it:



So where did that famous “consensus” claim that “98% of all scientists believe in global warming” come from? It originated from an endlessly reported 2009 American Geophysical Union (AGU) survey consisting of an intentionally brief two-minute, two question online survey sent to 10,257 earth scientists by two researchers at the University of Illinois. Of the about 3.000 who responded, 82% answered “yes” to the second question, which like the first, most people I know would also have agreed with.

Then of those, only a small subset, just 77 who had been successful in getting more than half of their papers recently accepted by peer-reviewed climate science journals, were considered in their survey statistic. That “98% all scientists” referred to a laughably puny number of 75 of those 77 who answered “yes”. -----> SEE PEER REVIEW GRAPH OF SURVEY http://s6.postimg.org/63daf3569/better_graph_98_consensus_false.png


That anything-but-scientific survey asked two questions.

The first: “When compared with pre-1800s levels, do you think that mean global temperatures have generally risen, fallen, or remained relatively constant?” Few would be expected to dispute this…the planet began thawing out of the “Little Ice Age” in the middle 19th century, predating the Industrial Revolution. (That was the coldest period since the last real Ice Age ended roughly 10,000 years ago.)

The second question asked: “Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?” So what constitutes “significant”? Does “changing” include both cooling and warming… and for both “better” and “worse”? And which contributions…does this include land use changes, such as agriculture and deforestation?


Here’s the survey as it appeared in EOS:

--------> EOS, TRANSACTIONS AMERICAN GEOPHYSICAL UNION, VOL. 90, NO. 3, PAGE 22, 2009 doi:10.1029/2009EO030002 <----- PEER REVIEW JOURNAL


Very poor sampling method, very poor question construction, cannot evaluate administration of the survey based upon this info but overall a very poor study to be sure. High probability of sample bias and questions structured to obtain a directed response. My opinion is based upon designing and managing survey research for over 20 years either directly or as a function of departments I managed. Quoting this study is, indeed, meaningless.

THE GRAPH AT LISTED IN THE PEER REVIEW JOURNAL SHOWING HOW FLAW THE SURVEY IS!!!


http://s6.postimg.org/63daf3569/better_graph_98_consensus_false.png


http://tigger.uic.edu/~pdoran/012009_Doran_final.pdf


GO SEE MY POST #622 A BETTER NONBIASED PEER REVIEW SURVEY WAS CONDUCTED.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es501998e

AND WITH A LATEST BETTER SURVEY NOT IS NOT BIASED AND FLAW WITH GOOD SAMPLING ....The 97% consensus of climate scientists is only 47%
http://www.pbl.nl/sites/default/fil...ence-survey-questions-and-responses_01731.pdf <----GO TO PAGE 9 AND LOOK AT THE FIGURE Figure 1b Responses to Question 1b. The figure on the left refers to respondents having answered to Question 1a that the GHG-contribution to the warming since mid-20th century is more than 50%, and the figure on the right refers to those having responded that this is less than 50%. IT IS LESS THEN 50% CONSENSUS
 
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Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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NASA lays it down clearly:

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

That is, 97% of those who are actively studying and publishing research on climatology support the consensus view on anthropogenic climate change.
"Climate warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities"?

That doesn't even come close to answering the question. Let's try again.

Frankfooter answer this question!!!

Does the "consensus" on "anthropogenic climate change":

1) Only include scientists who believe that man-made emissions have been the dominant cause of warming since 1950?

Or

2) Include scientists who believe that natural factors have been the dominant cause of warming since 1950?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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About that overwhelming 97-98% number of scientists that say there is a climate consensus…
Nothing new there, including a link to one of the two studies that moviefan lied about, the PBL Netherlands study in your last link.

There were multiple legit studies backing the statement, which is why NASA and the AAAS, both incredibly conservative, support the consensus claim.
Between NASA and AAAS, and the associations listed on both of those sites, you have pretty much every legit scientific association in North America backing the consensus claim and the work of the IPCC.

Linking to a handful of oil funded kooks really doesn't disprove those serious studies.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
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Nothing new there, including a link to one of the two studies that moviefan lied about, the PBL Netherlands study in your last link.
I don't know how you can think I "lied about" the PBL Netherlands study when you still haven't answered the question about the "consensus" on "anthropogenic climate change".

Let's try again.

Frankfooter answer this question!!!

Does the "consensus" on "anthropogenic climate change":

1) Only include scientists who believe that man-made emissions have been the dominant cause of warming since 1950?

Or

2) Include scientists who believe that natural factors have been the dominant cause of warming since 1950?

As soon as you answer the question, we'll determine whether or not I lied about the results.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Absolutely.
There you go.
You trust a TV weatherman, who couldn't even pass his undergraduate in meteorology over all other legit scientific organizations.
That really says a lot about your ability to judge both the science and your understanding of it.

Shall we start an investigation into Watts' work?
How about starting with a look at why Watts is part of a group of lobbyists who want to sue the filmmakers of "Merchants of Doubt".
http://insideclimatenews.org/news/1...-oreskes-fred-singer-marc-morano-steve-milloy

 

PornAddict

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PLEASE, Frankfooter answer this question!!!

Does the "consensus" on "anthropogenic climate change":

1) Only include scientists who believe that man-made emissions have been the dominant cause of warming since 1950?

Or

2) Include scientists who believe that natural factors have been the dominant cause of warming since 1950?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,866
22,266
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I don't know how you can think I "lied about" the PBL Netherlands study when you still haven't answered the question about the "consensus" on "anthropogenic climate change".

Let's try again.

Frankfooter answer this question!!!

Does the "consensus" on "anthropogenic climate change":

1) Only include scientists who believe that man-made emissions have been the dominant cause of warming since 1950?

Or

2) Include scientists who believe that natural factors have been the dominant cause of warming since 1950?

As soon as you answer the question, we'll determine whether or not I lied about the results.
Once again, here is the answer as clearly stated by NASA.

Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals1 show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree: Climate-warming trends over the past century are very likely due to human activities. In addition, most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position.
http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

That is, 97% of those who are actively studying and publishing research on climatology support the consensus view on anthropogenic climate change.

As for your question, I would assume that there are inclusions of your 2) in the 3% who don't support the consensus view. But I would expect that there would only be a few percent of the few percent that believed the increases were from 'natural factors', as in probably less then 0.1% back your claim, as its patently ridiculous with all the studies and reports to date.

If you would like to start your own study of crackpots, lobbyists and kooks who think its all 'natural causes' go to town.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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I don't know how you can think I "lied about" the PBL Netherlands study when you still haven't answered the question about the "consensus" on "anthropogenic climate change".
You lied because you claimed this studied proved there was no consensus on climate change when the author stated the opposite as his finding.
You lied about the study.
 

PornAddict

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Unscientific hockey sticks and hidden data

These maps and graphs make it clear just how brazenly unscientific the Hockey Stick is.

http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/fraudulent-hockey-sticks-and-hidden-data/

THIS BLOG HAVE LINKS TO LOTS OF PEER REVIEW JOURNAL ON THE GRAPHS




—————————–

The bottom line is that there are a mass of studies that show it was warmer in medieval times, and that it was global. Yet there is a disinformation campaign out there by the IPCC and others to promote the idea that it was a local phenomenon and that the Hockey Stick Graph has not been resoundingly, completely shown to be scientifically baseless.


UPDATED: The line “the world was warmer than 800 years ago” was changed to “the world was as warm years ago” to reflect updated results from boreholes that I was unaware of when this was posted. It makes little material difference to the arguments for or against CO2 whether the world was warmer or as warm 800 years ago, or 1000 years ago. We know it was warmer 5000 years ago in the holocene.

UPDATED: In light of current court cases the word “fraud” was replaced with “unscientific” pending the outcome of their decisions.
 
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