Bibi Wins, Two State Solution Dies?

[fuji]

If it isn't member then it isn't full state. It stays part of Israel
You can also argue that Alabama is a state

Says who? You????? The UN does not agree with you and declared Palestine a state.

The UN has not declared Alabama nor Quebec a state. You got laughed off the thread earlier trying to argue UNESCO had declared Quebec a state, and it turned out the UNESCO site listed Palestine as a state but not Quebec.

Moreover Palestine cannot "stay part of Israel" since was NEVER EVER part of Israel. Before being a state it was a stateless occupied territory, still not part of Israel.

You are just doing a pathetic clown dance now. You have been proved wrong but you dance around saying more and more pathetic things to avoid admitting the facts.

 

[fuji]

Haha
1- The borders are completely controlled by Israel.

Yes, it is an occupied state.

2- Fatah has a police but no army

Wrong. The al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades is the armed wing of Fatah and it is not a police force.

3- Are you saying that Gaza has a border ?

Yes.

When you fly from the US mainland to Alaska you don't need to go through canadian border control

If you drive you do.

but palestinians aren't allowed to move between the west bank and Gaza unless they get a permit from Israel.

Because Palestine is an occupied state.

All you have proved on this thread is that you are an illiterate clown who does not know what the word "occupied" means.

 

[Moviefan-2]

What's interesting about the UN press release about the "observer state" foolishness is that it acknowledges that true statehood can only be achieved through negotiations with Israel.

http://www.un.org/press/en/2012/ga11317.doc.htm

 

[basketcase]

That's fine , if they aren't going to give up the land, just keep it. But if you keep it, technically it belongs to Israel

Good job ignoring the question.

The Palestinians don't want to be Israeli. The Palestinians don't want a two state peace. The Palestinians don't want a one state peace.

Their goal of destroying Israel won't happen so they are left with either a continued occupation or accepting peace in some form.

 

[basketcase]

I don't support terrorism. I'm against violence. I think that Palestinians should follow the examples of successful peaceful resistance like Mahatma Gandi m Marin Luther King and 'one man , one vote' in south africa , and ask for equal rights under one state, now that two states solutions is dead.

Another anti-Israel clown who wants to impose a solution that the Palestinians are overwhelmingly opposed to while he is pretending to support their democratic 'rights'.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Bravo, this contradicts the lies of fuji :The UN acknowledges that the observer state isn't true state
The true statehood can be achieved only when Israel accepts it. The prime minister of Israel said he won't allow a palestinian state, that means the UN won't accept statehood because the Israeli government refuses it, Therefore they don't have a state, it remains part of Israel

Actually, what Netanyahu has made clear is that a two-state solution isn't possible until the Palestinians commit themselves to ending the violence and accepting the existence of a Jewish nation in the Middle East. As much as you might not like it, it is unlikely the Palestinians will endorse the only viable path to Palestinian statehood in the foreseeable future.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Therefore, they don't have a state.

I fixed your quote for you and removed the erroneous part at the end.

 

[fuji]

To visit the west bank , any foreigner need a visa/permit from Israel, therefore the west bank is part of Israel. Otherwise if it isn't part of Issrael why do you need Israeli permission to visit it ?

Look up the word "occupied" in your dictionary already. That does not make it part of Israel, that makes it territory under Israel control. There is a difference that you seem to be too stupid to understand.

 

[fuji]

These are an armed militias an not an army. Fatah has no army. There is no palestinian army

Wrong. An armed militia is an army. Certainly it isn't a police force!

 

[fuji]

Bravo, this contradicts the lies of fuji :The UN acknowltoedges that the observer state isn't true state

The correct statement is that it isn't an independent state, it is an occupied state. But it is a state.

The UN has it listed as a state on its website and that fact isn't going away no matter how much you try to deny it.

 

[fuji]

Now , if someone from Gaza wants to go to the west bank through Egypt and Jordan, he needs Israeli permission.

Because it is OCCUPIED.

And it is clearly a state, undeniably: the UN lists it as a state. There is a widely supported UN resolution declaring it a state.

You have no argument at all you are just doing your stupid clown dance.

 

[fuji]

Mohawks have an armed militia called Mohawk warriors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oka_Crisis
Do Mohawks have an army ?

The Palestinian military is armed with heavy weapons, rockets, missiles. They have anti aircraft weaponry, anti tank missiles, long range rockets. They have recently engaged a major army in open warfare for an extended battle in which they succeeded in killing a few dozen soldiers.

Do the Mohawks have that?

 

[fuji]

The UN in this link below says that observer state isn't a true state and that only Israel would recognize Palestine as a full state which Netenyahu said it won't happen

Netanyahu never said that, you are blatantly lying.

And you are misrepresenting what the press release said by trying to rephrase it. What it said is that Palestine won't achieve INDEPENDENCE without a negotiated solution.

Palestine is a non member state that is under occupation.

 

[fuji]

a non independent state isn't a state. Otherwise Alabama would be a state just because it's called 'state of Alabama'
A non independent state like Alabama is part of an independent state ( US). Therefore the non independent Palestinian territory is part of the independent state of Israel.

Says who, you????

The UN does not agree with you, it says that Palestine is a non member STATE. Palestine has actively used that state status to join a variety of organizations that only states can join.

But even when it wasn't, before the UN resolution, when it was not yet a state it was still not part of Israel. It was occupied territory back then.

Even if you were right and the whole world was wrong and Palestine were just a terroritory and not a state that would still not make it part of Israel.

You are simply too stupid to know what the word "occupied" means. No matter whether Palestine is an "occupied state" or an "occupied territory" it is simply impossible to claim it is part of Israel. There are dozens and dozens of resolutions from both the Security Council and the General Assembly as well as rulings from the International Courts stating beyond any doubt that the territory is not Israeli.

 

[fuji]

gowest, read this:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_occupation

You can follow links to the treaties that define occupation and the responsibilities is an occupier.

 

[fuji]

if it isn't israeli territory why do you need an israeli visa/permit to visit that territory ?

Occupied. A concept you are too stupid to comprehend.

 

[fuji]

It isn't just military occupation because there are civilian israeli settlements there and they are subject to israeli civilian law not military law

Inside the wall. Not outside.

 

[fuji]

Netenyahu delcraed that there will be no state, so it's no longer temporary but permanent and therefore it isn't occupation

No he didn't, you are lying.

 

[fuji]

And even if the west bank wasn't Israeli territory, the apartheid can be extra-territorial like the case of Namibia in the 60's and 70's when it was occupied by south africa that established bantustans for black namibians while white settlers who came from south africa enjoyed more rights and had access to 74% of arable land although their number was only 0.2% . Black namibians weren't south african citizens , but it was classified as an apartheid . So your argument that arabs in west bank aren't israeli citizens isn't an argument that denies apartheid because black namibians weren't south african citizens. And Israeli settlers enjoy more rights than arabs in west bank same as white settlers from south africa in Nambia

This the map of bantustans in Namibia , similar to west bank
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namibia#/media/File:Namibia_homelands_78.jpeg

I have already told you the difference, the Palestinians aren't integral to Israel the way that blacks were integral to south africa. The Palestinians aren't part of Israel, aren't part of the Israeli economy. Their only relation to Israel is that they are a hostile foreign force.

Those Palestinians who do live in Israel enjoy full democratic rights and freedoms.

You have no argument whatsoever.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Netenyahu delcraed that there will be no state, so it's no longer temporary but permanent and therefore it isn't occupation

The Toronto Star has a story this morning that considers a one-state solution and looks at whether Israel should annex the West Bank and Gaza into the state of Israel:

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2...rael-palestine-solution-is-fading-to-one.html

Apparently, no one at the Star (or at Haaretz, which has a columnist quoted in the article) has heard the news about how the West Bank and Gaza are already supposed to be part of the state of Israel. :biggrin1: