Monthly allowances or PPV?
- Thread starter alexiadx
- Start date
This is some forward thinking. Look at the business models of companies currently thriving in the entertainment industry: Netflix, Spotify, Hulu, hell even porn websites. Pay once a month, get unlimited content. Genius for an SP to offer the same.
My only thing about this would be cost. Netflix and other subscription based models can get away with it because their business model relies on millions of people paying for it so that they can justify a cost of $10/month. I'm guessing SPs aren't going to be able to offer the same model. So if you end up having to offer something in the thousands of dollars range, you're not going to get a lot of people biting (so to speak).
I think the line of thinking here is really great, but I don't think the numbers are there to support it. Not yet.
My only thing about this would be cost. Netflix and other subscription based models can get away with it because their business model relies on millions of people paying for it so that they can justify a cost of $10/month. I'm guessing SPs aren't going to be able to offer the same model. So if you end up having to offer something in the thousands of dollars range, you're not going to get a lot of people biting (so to speak).
I think the line of thinking here is really great, but I don't think the numbers are there to support it. Not yet.
The difference between a Netflix subscription and an SP is that Netflix is almost infinitely scalable - if the # of subscribers goes above a certain number, they just add more servers. An SP is explicitly NOT scalable - while she's with the subscriber, she won't be able to lease her time to anyone else.
With many subscription type services, you can always do the math afterwards - if I had paid for each visit, how much would I have paid, vs the subscription amount? Did I go more often under the subscription amount because I had already "paid", and wanted my money's worth? A gym is a good example here (as mentioned above). If you could just buy day passes for $25, maybe you'll go 3x/month. But if you pay $75/month fixed rate, maybe you'll end up going more often.
Again - what Chloe seems to be offering is a monthly guaranteed rate for a certain # of sessions - almost like a wireless subscription of 800 mins free. You go over 800 mins - you pay more. Under 800 mins - Rogers/Bell wins.
I'm sure a subscription model works for some SPs, and for some clients - I can't see myself ever going for it, but like everything else on this board, to each his/her own.
With many subscription type services, you can always do the math afterwards - if I had paid for each visit, how much would I have paid, vs the subscription amount? Did I go more often under the subscription amount because I had already "paid", and wanted my money's worth? A gym is a good example here (as mentioned above). If you could just buy day passes for $25, maybe you'll go 3x/month. But if you pay $75/month fixed rate, maybe you'll end up going more often.
Again - what Chloe seems to be offering is a monthly guaranteed rate for a certain # of sessions - almost like a wireless subscription of 800 mins free. You go over 800 mins - you pay more. Under 800 mins - Rogers/Bell wins.
I'm sure a subscription model works for some SPs, and for some clients - I can't see myself ever going for it, but like everything else on this board, to each his/her own.
To expand on this idea, it may work much better if you add a unique aspect to it. A while back I saw a segment on a news program where a guy set up in NYC a club that has 40 or 50 cars that the club members can take out. They payed a subscription membership ( it was quite hefty ) and were able to take out Maybachs, Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Porsche and other exotic cars.
Using the above business model, an added incentive is to do this with maybe 3-5 ladies. So the client can pay the subscription of $1000 for 5 sessions at a discounted price from the usual $300 per hour fee and get a choice of 5 ladies that they can visit one or more times till the subscription runs out. The ladies get the benefit of using their down time ( example 10:0AM - 3:00PM ) much more efficiently.
I'm not sure you get where the angst came from Omega. She's free to charge whatever she wants, but anyone who takes her up on that deal, as stated in post #4 below, is a complete sucker.
There's no benefit to the customer at all, unless she goes exclusive...and judging by her posts she factors that into her fees anyway. The deal is grossly weighted in Chloe's favour.
If someone was told they could (a) buy 15 massage services from my hot co-worker for $3000, but it expires with no refund at the end of month if you don't use all 15 sessions, or (b) buy sessions on demand at $200 a pop...who in their right mind would go with option (a)? There's no plus side, and the potential of big downside for the customer.
What's worse is that she lists "unlimited visits" on her site as the $6000/month option, which seems to be a complete contradiction to what she said in post #4...and therefore false advertising. That's a serious issue, especially when it's that kind of money on the line! We don't mean to be hard on Chloe, but there's some serious clarification needed here.
That analogy only works if there's another option included: pay by the minute at 1/800th the cost of the 800 minute subscription. Which option would you choose? The pay by the minute plan of course. Because why pay for 800 minutes you might not use?
I agree.
I think your rendition of what it could be like is more along the lines of what Horngry described and certainly nowhere near what Chloe is trying to put forward. I dismissed Chloe's story as story telling, making it up as she went along as Lazyhanger suggested. As some have suggested, if you follow Chloe's explanation from reply to reply, it makes no sense and even less as the details emerge, especially when she suggests Lazyhanger had a different interpretation of her rates when he referred to her use of the word "unlimited" in her website.
In my opinion, the idea of the monthly fee is to put that "business transaction" out of mind. It's dealt with once a month and isn't as easily directly connected to the act as a pay per session transaction where we leave an envelope every time. Yes, it's all in our heads as we are still paying but maybe easier to put out of mind and live the fantasy.
This is definitely the last comment from my end but I would just like to say a few things from an SP's perspective.
This has to be one of the most disheartening things I have ever heard, reading some of the views that some gentlemen in Toronto have of the types of encounters available.
Some of you have essentially compared what this is, to a wireless subscription and discussed the opinions where you feel some gentlemen are not as smart, when they can go through 30+ sessions for much less, or even pay the same rate for many sessions up until the monthly fee is reached. More bang for your buck, so to speak.
Whatever happened to quality versus quantity? Granted, you can always get the both with great providers, but some of the comments regarding approximate value for your dollar here, are quite astounding. Some people treat this like a simple transaction available to haggle or commodity that is up for debate and bargaining, until it fits a price you feel is right. It is not.
You've taken words and cut them up into ideas that seem to fit an assembly line, train of thinking.
Half of the assumptions listed are completely wrong, but who am I to continue to argue?
None of the gentlemen who seem to take such a negative view have met me.
My encounters are times that I have shared with many different gentlemen, all over the world, learning many different cultural values and norms that I keep with me as I keep learning.
Just because something seems like a rip-off to some, doesn't mean it is to others.
This is the oldest profession, but I still consider it somewhat quite special and sacred, more than just doing the deed.
The men who choose these types of arrangements seem to agree. They are searching for something different.
I can't speak for everyone, but for the gentlemen who I've met and shared something extremely special with, time and time again, money is no object, nor close comparison to the feeling that is left by the client and as well by myself.
You may feel as though you can find these sort of connections, without paying a fee you feel is exorbitant, and that is your prerogative. I'm not that type of provider or person you paint me out to be and I refuse to continue to defend/correct/explain my honorarium and reasoning behind it. For the men who do not believe this is a rip-off, I welcome them.
Feel free to rip this apart too.
I'm out.
This has to be one of the most disheartening things I have ever heard, reading some of the views that some gentlemen in Toronto have of the types of encounters available.
Some of you have essentially compared what this is, to a wireless subscription and discussed the opinions where you feel some gentlemen are not as smart, when they can go through 30+ sessions for much less, or even pay the same rate for many sessions up until the monthly fee is reached. More bang for your buck, so to speak.
Whatever happened to quality versus quantity? Granted, you can always get the both with great providers, but some of the comments regarding approximate value for your dollar here, are quite astounding. Some people treat this like a simple transaction available to haggle or commodity that is up for debate and bargaining, until it fits a price you feel is right. It is not.
You've taken words and cut them up into ideas that seem to fit an assembly line, train of thinking.
Half of the assumptions listed are completely wrong, but who am I to continue to argue?
None of the gentlemen who seem to take such a negative view have met me.
My encounters are times that I have shared with many different gentlemen, all over the world, learning many different cultural values and norms that I keep with me as I keep learning.
Just because something seems like a rip-off to some, doesn't mean it is to others.
This is the oldest profession, but I still consider it somewhat quite special and sacred, more than just doing the deed.
The men who choose these types of arrangements seem to agree. They are searching for something different.
I can't speak for everyone, but for the gentlemen who I've met and shared something extremely special with, time and time again, money is no object, nor close comparison to the feeling that is left by the client and as well by myself.
You may feel as though you can find these sort of connections, without paying a fee you feel is exorbitant, and that is your prerogative. I'm not that type of provider or person you paint me out to be and I refuse to continue to defend/correct/explain my honorarium and reasoning behind it. For the men who do not believe this is a rip-off, I welcome them.
Feel free to rip this apart too.
I'm out.
I feel like I've opened up a can of worms, and this was not my intention. And you Chloe please relax. Many of the men here like myself want to feel that its not all about money.
That being said, we as clients have different needs and wants. Some of us being married or with a SO or not. This brings into perspective, what your hearing with some of the replies.
Its that simple, don't get upset at what your hearing, but use it as a constructive tool to better your business.
Chloë,
alexiadx opened the discussion by asking her fellow SPs over her place for wine and cuddles. As she said they were discussing the pros and cons of unlimited visits in a month vs paying for each visit. Not all men are looking for the encounters of the type that you have to offer. If an SP or a group of SPs were to offer unlimited visits she or they would have to offer incentive in the way of a discount, bonus or variety. Comparison to a wireless subscription is quite valid in the context of this discussion. In a wireless subscription there are people that are pay-as-you-go which the wireless providers want to convert into regular subscription clients. The wireless provider also have clients that take regular as well as premium subscriptions and from time to time there are bonuses and incentives to keep the clients loyal and to make sure that the competition do not offer a better service and convert the clients to their subscriptions. As far as quality versus quantity, there are some clients that at times will want quality and other times want quantity. I can make an analogy by comparing the SP service to restaurants. There are times where I have the time to dine at good sit down restaurants and there are times where I do not and have to go fast food. McDonald's sometimes offers seasonal or promotional food offerings that are a change from the usual and can be a pleasant change. As for your comparison of the SP biz to an assembly line, there are SPs that adapt and innovate to get the clients. While you ladies are discussing arguing over the pros and cons of offering a season pass to the Palace of Delights and Pleasures, there are some SPs that are eating your lunch. I know one lady that is young and good looking and specializes in the quality fast service end of the business by offering 45 minute session at a slightly reduced price with the quality intact. She is quite strict about the client being on time and she ends the appointment with a reminder 10 minutes before the time is up. She takes few new clients because she has enough regulars. She does quite well as she mentioned to me recently that she was having problems with her Lexus suspension. ( Further into the conversation I learned that she is a maniac on the road. ) This woman is available 9AM and takes her last appointment at 5PM. I will only guess that the people in her private life probably think she has an executive position at a big corporation. She has made the possibility for herself of 8 slots for appointments, 5 days a week. I am quite sure she has more clients than she can handle. The reason you resist the assembly line, train of thinking is because you think that it may be less profitable for you. Others have organized, adapted and innovated to maximize their time and profit. You say half of the assumptions of the men that have commented in this thread are wrong, and I assume you believe all your statements are right. Ultimately, the client makes the final choice. Quality aside you can not expect a client to accept quantity goods and services and pay regular pricing. As I read your final words ( I'm out. ) I heard a chorus of several thousand men in a baritone barber shop quartet sound sing : Yes, you most certainly are!
Single rate is called a sugar babe. If that is what you want, it is available. Nothing wrong with it. There should be some ground rules on frequency and no one is going to sell "unlimited sex". But certainly you can negotiate a monthly price to meet twice a week or some such. Usually those setups include an expectation of dinners and such but not necessarily.
Trying to convince an SP to charge less than she wants to or argue her price or persuade her to choose a different billing method is silly. Just find someone who is interested in selling what you are buying.
Trying to convince an SP to charge less than she wants to or argue her price or persuade her to choose a different billing method is silly. Just find someone who is interested in selling what you are buying.
Hey, I'm all for respectfully disagreeing! Nothing wrong with that.
Certainly some ladies provide monthly plans, but usually they involve the possibility of more bang (haha) for your buck than on-demand bookings, which completely makes sense. What doesn't make sense is when such plans give you identical or less bang for your buck, which seems to be the case here. Now I could assume that Chloe provides a different, better level of service to her monthly customers, or that she provides exclusivity to one monthly client at a time, and that would make such a plan more sensical, but I'd rather not get into assumptions.
I'm not debating Chloe's service. I've never met her; I'm sure she's a lovely lady. I've made no assumptions. I literally read what she said and responded to it because I think it's a shitty deal. That's one part of the problem.
The other part is that she lists "unlimited visits" as an option. Obviously unlimited visits isn't really a viable option in the case of a greedy client, so such an arrangement would come with a caveat. However, that caveat should not be unlimited visits until you've reached $6000 at the per-visit going rate. That defeats the whole purpose of an "unlimited" option.
I believe Chloe is confused as to what our complaints really are, unwilling to disclose pertinent information (which is her right), or simply disagrees. But it stands that there is legitimate cause for debate here....
So is that more like a draw system? I'm assuming that you mean something like you pay a retainer of X. An hour of your time is normally Y, but when drawn from the retainer is more like Y less 10% or something.
That way you have the assurance of hassle free payment and guaranteed bookings and the client gets a slight discount for the up front loyalty. If we are on the same page, this one at least has a basis in logic and makes some sense
A thought...you should do unlimited visits (with a per day cap), but with a deadline of like 60 days.
If someone wants to see you in North York one day, the Sooooooo the next and over in Kitchener two days later, I say let 'em
You wanted feedback, you got it, and now you dis the crew and bolt ...seems like "sour grapes"?
The customers you want are out there.
But you are trying to dress the emperor in new clothes, when no one cares about the clothes and can see right through them anyway.
With c36 buzzing around maybe its safer to play the way you wish to.
I'd sure like to be a fly on the wall when you have the conversation of "I think you had too much sex this month" or "you're over quota" or from your side, "I don't feel like having sex now"
Oh and yes, you can find very deep connections with amazing sexual chemistry - for WAY less than 6k/month+travel. You can find that for virtually free, paying for it doesn't make it happen.
Not sire if the provider should let him or not, but I would say this type of client is shell shocked .If someone wants to see you in North York one day, the Sooooooo the next and over in Kitchener two days later, I say let 'em
there are a plethora of young Asian/Euro students on student visas in Canada that are available from anywhere from $2500-4000/month on an exclusive basis.
Exactly! Such arrangements actually make financial sense to both parties and aren't lopsided in one person's favour.
