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SkyRider

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We should be getting judgments are 3 high profile murder cases, Magotta, Pan and Husband.

I wonder if 1, 2 or all 3 will walk? Mental illness is a powerful defense and nobody wants to put a mentally ill person in prison..
 
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gcostanza

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SkyRider said:
.......Mental illness is a powerful defense and nobody wants to put a mentally ill person in prison..
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You've obviously never been to Texas.
 
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Aardvark154

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SkyRider said:
We should be getting judgments are 3 high profile murder cases, Magotta, Pan and Husband.

I wonder if 1, 2 or all 3 will walk? Mental illness is a powerful defense and nobody wants to put a mentally ill person in prison..
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I'll leave it to my learned friends to comment about Canada in practice. But as a Common Law generality - the insanity defence is a difficult hurdle to surmount.


Criminal Code of Canada:

§ 16. (1) No person is criminally responsible for an act committed or an omission made while suffering from a mental disorder that rendered the person incapable of appreciating the nature and quality of the act or omission or of knowing that it was wrong.

Which boiling it down basically means: A: The Black Dog told me to kill Bob and God told me that it would be OK if I killed Bob. Q: OK but if I kill Sue would that be good? A: Oh no you can't kill Sue, she's a very nice person. BUZZER sorry no Criminal Insanity because you know that it is wrong to murder people, even if you believe you have a special exemption from that rule.
 
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Viggo Rasmussen

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I think Magnotta and Jennifer Pan are both guilty and deserve the maximum sentence, but who is Husband? That's a hard name to google.
 
mandrill

mandrill

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ogibowt said:
Husbands...the Eatin Centre shooter
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This guy has sfa defence. Known gang-banger who was VIDEOTAPED gunning down his vics.
 
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SkyRider

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The Magnotta trial will likely go to the jury on Monday. He has already admitted to the killing but says he is not criminally responsible because mentally ill.

The Pan jury is now in its 5th day of deliberation.
 
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NHFL

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Aardvark154 said:
Which boiling it down basically means: A: The Black Dog told me to kill Bob and God told me that it would be OK if I killed Bob. Q: OK but if I kill Sue would that be good? A: Oh no you can't kill Sue, she's a very nice person. BUZZER sorry no Criminal Insanity because you know that it is wrong to murder people, even if you believe you have a special exemption from that rule.
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But is it not a matter of TIMING? If I suffer from sporadic but debilitating back-pain, I can lift something heavy today but not tomorrow. Am I "guilty" for not lifting when I am in pain? If I am in an acute phase of my psychosis, I simply may not know right from wrong at THAT TIME, but at other times I do.

Also, your example may not prove anything for a few reasons. First, it would imply that a killer as to think that he has to kill EVERYONE, or want to kill everyone, in order to get off on an insanity charge. Second, I come back to the issue of timing or non-absolutes. My mental condition simply may tell me that some people are good, and some people are not. My mental condition makes it so I don't want to murder the good people, but I do want to murder the very bad. Further, my mental condition may make it so that I only think one person, instead of everyone is bad. I could re-frame the answer to your question such that I say "Oh no you can't kill Sue because she is a very nice person, but I KNOW I have to kill Bob. Murdering Sue is wrong because she is nice, but murdering Bob is totally justified because he will kill me.... he is the devil and I am right to kill him. The US killed Osama Bin Laden, didn't they?"

However, on the other side of the coin, if I know I have a mental condition that makes me dangerous, is it not my responsibility to manage it appropriately, commit myself, get proper help, have people around me who can isolate, medicate or commit me when I am about to go on a murder spree? Should I not take my meds, see a psychiatrist, etc... I would hope that this guy did not properly manage his condition and can be found guilty under civil rules.
 
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latinboy

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The jury has found Pan guilty of 1st degree murder and attempted murder.

Good. One down, two to go. Although I got a sickening feeling that magnotta will be found Not Criminally Responsible.
 
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latinboy

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SkyRider

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It ain't over. Pan's lawyer said they will appeal. Surprised they didn't use the "abuse" and/or the "mentally ill" excuses.
 
mandrill

mandrill

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latinboy said:
The jury has found Pan guilty of 1st degree murder and attempted murder.

Good. One down, two to go. Although I got a sickening feeling that Magnotta will be found Not Criminally Responsible.
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Legally speaking, not much chance of that. He's going down for Murder 1.
 
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latinboy

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oagre said:
Legally speaking, not much chance of that. He's going down for Murder 1.
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I hope so. But given that numerous trial days were spent with psychiatrists focusing on his documented mental illness and that of his father's; that's what gives me the sickening feeling the jury might return with NCR.

Not comparing cases in any way but it's the same feeling based on mental illness defence of Vincent Li and Richard Kachkar.

So I hope you're right.
 
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fuji

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Vincent Li was clearly insane. Magnotta... Maybe. Borderline. Pan and Husbands I think are just cold blooded murderers. There is a difference between being so nuts you aren't really in control anymore (Li) and just having a few issues in your life.
 
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SkyRider

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SkyRider said:
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/man-wh...t-criminally-responsible-judge-says-1.2143437

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...lly_responsible_in_killing_of_his_sister.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...e-of-attempted-murder-attacks-again-1.2797034

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/not-criminally-responsible-6-cases-1.2500574
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ng-his-kids-returns-to-court/article14589228/

Another murderer found not criminally responsible because "mentally ill". This caused outrage in Quebec (where Magnotta is also on trial).
 
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