Most recent articles on prostitution related laws, opinions, comments

Siocnarf

New member
Aug 14, 2014
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Fun fact: Manitoba Minister of Justice Andrew Swan is one of the 5 ministers who just resigned. He is the one who testified recently at the Senate. What will be the position of their new minister of justice regarding prostitute internment and re-evangelisation camps?
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
31,963
2,892
113
Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
fun fact: Manitoba minister of justice andrew swan is one of the 5 ministers who just resigned. He is the one who testified recently at the senate. What will be the position of their new minister of justice regarding prostitute internment and r-evangelisation camps?
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
 

Siocnarf

New member
Aug 14, 2014
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Very true statements. The hidden agenda is gradually becoming unhidden. This conservative government is now gradually turning Canada into a dictatorship...
Also, their victim's right bill C-32 would give courts the possibility of keeping evidence secret and prevent cross-examination of witnesses. It would become effectively impossible to prepare an effective defense for the accused.
 

Siocnarf

New member
Aug 14, 2014
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"It’s definitely more hidden (than in other larger cities) ... It’s something we know happens, but it’s more under the radar and not very visible," Folkerts said.
Yes, and that's a very bad thing because people much prefer to have hookers visible on every street corner. When it's visible, people complain. When it is discreet and less visible they freak out even more. These people are hopeless.

For those near Ottawa, POWER is organising a Fundraiser dance party:
http://www.powerottawa.ca/Seeing_red_sm.pdf
 

op12

Active member
Oct 19, 2004
330
109
43
As soon as bill C36 becomes law it will be quickly challenged in the courts. As soon as its' thrown out by a lower court it will be good as dead because whatever government is in power will not appeal it. Even if the Conservatives (God forbid!!!!!) are still in power it's unlikely that any court would give the law a stay until the gov't could come up with something new or appeal it to a higher court.
This. If the law is successfully challenged in a lower court I would not expect that court to provide a stay on the judgment. It will be a dead law in whatever jurisdiction that court is in.
 

wilbur

Active member
Jan 19, 2004
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36
My opinion is that his stance is not clear now. His position can be interpreted in any way depending on the reader. So in the future he could litterally defend any position without being in contradiction with anything he said now.

I gave my own interpretation of his words, but I know many people interpret it to mean the opposite. I think this is intentional on the part of the government. Like a Nostradamus prediction they can mean whatever you want. In the future he can claim he meant whatever is convenient at this time. They leave all their interpretation open, so they don't have to commit to an actual interpretation until this becomes a challenge.

People aren't totally stupid... even politicians. Him changing his position would make him lose all credibility, and with that his reputation. The only thing he could say is that 'the devil (Harper) made me do it'.

He was supporting his boss MacKay's previous statement. The context and hence, his position was very clear because he was contradicting Senator Joyal's assertion about the contradiction that it was legal to sell what was illegal to buy. It's not a strict linguistic interpretation of what he verbally said that can change that.
 

Siocnarf

New member
Aug 14, 2014
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He was supporting his boss MacKay's previous statement....
Yes, I see what you mean. But MacKay's statement is not really crystal clear either.

The way I see it, it can be said to be illegal to sell sex in general. It is not however illegal to sell it when it's your own sex. So it's an activity that can be said to be illegal, but it is not illegal for the majority of people doing it. Saying that the activity is ''illegal'' or ''legal'' seems a purely abstract statement to me, that just doesn't take into consideration the complexity of the bill. An analogy: is it legal or illegal to sell alcohol? Is it legal or illegal to sell sex in Amsterdam? In both cases, it is legal under certain circumstances and it is a criminal act if done without a license. When we say it is legal to sell sex in the Netherlands, we really mean that it is possible for certain persons to do it legally under certain circumstances. Even in this ''legal'' regime there are plenty of people selling it in illegal ways.
 

freedom3

New member
Mar 7, 2004
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Toronto
Just so you understand McKay's "genius", he set it up so that prostitution is illegal for buyers and sellers, but sellers are exempt from prosecution. He plans on telling the court that sellers are engaging in illegal activity and, therefore, have no constitutional protection. Laughable, I know, but this is how Bill C-36 is set up.
 

Siocnarf

New member
Aug 14, 2014
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He plans on telling the court that sellers are engaging in illegal activity and, therefore, have no constitutional protection.
Yet the law is based on the affirmation that they are doing this because they have no choice. They cannot make a law that purports to save the helpless and then blame them for the dangers of their situation. I am really curious to see how the government is going to justify that in court. Presently they can get away with any stupid idea, but once they get in front of a judge they will have to talk sense.
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
23,359
12
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Just so you understand McKay's "genius", he set it up so that prostitution is illegal for buyers and sellers, but sellers are exempt from prosecution. He plans on telling the court that sellers are engaging in illegal activity and, therefore, have no constitutional protection. Laughable, I know, but this is how Bill C-36 is set up.
Technically, it is the receipt of consideration (material benefit) for which sellers are specifically immune from, not for selling sex.

Selling is not prohibited (therefore, not illegal), and neither was it prohibited pre-C36.

So if an SP must go underground in order to collect $ (now criminalized but for which there is immunity from prosecution), and subject themselves to risk, I say this will render that law unconstitutional, just as ensuring the discretion of buyers who take up on an SPs offer to sell (which is not illegal).
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
31,963
2,892
113
Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
With sadness we inform you that Bill C-36, the anti-sex work laws, passed third reading in the Senate on November 4, 2014. Once it receives Royal Assent, which we believe will be in the next few days, it will be law across the country.

This new set of laws will ensure violence against us. Keeping criminalization in place will continue the stigma and social exclusion of sex workers.
Bringing forth the Bedford, Lebovitch, Scott challenge was right!

What the Supreme Court of Canada did was just!

What the Harper government is doing is a travesty!

Know this: we live to fight another day! In all of human history, no government, no army, no religion has ever stopped sex work, nor will they be able to stop what is now a global sex workers rights movement. This isn’t over!

http://www.spoc.ca/


 

escapefromstress

New member
Mar 15, 2012
944
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Senate passes controversial prostitution legislation C-36

The government’s controversial anti-prostitution legislation, Bill C-36, has passed the Senate without changes.

It’s now on track to get royal assent before the end of the year, which would meet a deadline set by the Supreme Court of Canada.

Late last year, the Supreme Court struck down the current prostitution laws as unconstitutional, ruling that they created a dangerous environment for sex workers and impeded their ability to protect themselves.

Bill C-36, the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act, makes the purchase of sexual services a criminal offence, as well as criminalizes the activity of third parties who financially benefit from the exploitation of others through prostitution.

Soon after the Senate passed C-36, Sex Professionals of Canada (SPOC) posted a statement on its website saying the new laws would fail to ensure the safety of sex workers.

“Keeping criminalization in place will continue the stigma and social exclusion of sex workers,” it said.

Justice Minister Peter MacKay has insisted C-36 will ensure safer conditions for sex workers by cracking down on those who exploit them.

Last September, MacKay said “it treats sellers as victims of sexual exploitation, victims who need assistance in leaving prostitution and not punishment for the exploitation they've endured."

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/senat...c-36-1.2087104
 

Siocnarf

New member
Aug 14, 2014
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The argument Piragoff was making in front of the Senate Justice committee, is that the sellers deriving benefits from providing their own services are immune to prosecution; they're still criminals however.
I understand the logic, but it flies in the face of elementary justice. You are NOT a criminal until convicted by a court of law. This is the most basic thing.

The law makes it impossible to determine whether a seller is guilty, because there can be no trial. The action of selling might be considered a crime in a purely abstract sense, but the person doing it can never be caller a criminal. This is a complete aberration.

Anyway, the way I see it the angle of attack will not be that it is legal as it was in Bedford. This seems irrelevant under the new preamble. The challenge can come from the fact that the law aims to protect these vulnerable peoples and causes harm instead. Before, it was a legal transaction; now they are victims. It becomes even more crucial to ensure their safety!

What happened to the 15 amendments that Baker was supposed to propose? I didn't have time to watch the hearings this week.
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
31,963
2,892
113
Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
http://www.msnikkithomas.com/open-letter-to-kathleen-wynne-stop-c36/

Open Letter to Kathleen Wynne: Refer C36 to the Ontario Court of Appeal Immediately

The Right Honourable Premier Kathleen Wynne:

Bill C36, the Conservative Party of Canada’s response to the Supreme Court of Canada’s unanimous decision on Canada’s prostitution laws, has now passed third reading in both the House of Commons and the Senate. It is likely to receive Royal Assent in the coming weeks, after which it will become law.

This bill is an assault on the entire sex work community. We have done our best to share our stories, and we have raised our concerns, put forward mountains of evidence, and made every possible effort to have our voices heard. But we have been dismissed, ignored, and deemed unworthy of contributing to an issue that will affect us in the most fundamental ways.

This bill will put women and marginalized peoples in danger. This bill will put vulnerable people in a more vulnerable position. This bill will unquestionably visit violence and death upon sex workers, and will recreate the same conditions that allowed predators like Robert Pickton and Gary Ridgeway to thrive.

This bill absolutely violates the rights guaranteed to us by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Minister Peter MacKay has even admitted as much, when he claimed it may hold up under Section 1 – a tacit admission that it fails the protections afforded by other sections. But I remind you – this is the very same government that insisted the previous laws were indeed constitutional, and the Supreme Court unanimously disagreed. They ignore and disrespect the constitution at every turn, and they have allowed ideology to trump rationality time and again. Their credibility is non-existent, they engage in decision-based evidence-making instead of evidence-based decision-making, and their contempt for the Supreme Court is blatant and appalling.

When I spoke to you at Queen’s Park back in June, you assured me that your concern was with how this law would affect vulnerable people, and you have publicly stated that you will continue to monitor the situation. You said you would consider all available options. Now, Prime Minister Harper is trying to force you to dedicate provincial resources to enforcing this law, which is a failure on every level. Will you allow him to force his will upon you, and the sex-working citizens of Ontario?

I ask of you this – as soon as it receives Royal Assent, please refer this bill immediately to the Ontario Court of Appeal for a constitutional reference, and do not pursue prosecutions until they determine its constitutionality. You cannot, in good conscience, expend provincial resources on the enforcement of this law when it is so clearly in need of judicial review at the highest level.

The sex work community cannot afford years of violence and death as this law works its way through the courts.
Doing so would cost you nothing, and you would simply be doing your due diligence to ensure the laws our provinces enforces meet the basic constitutional standard that all laws much satisfy. Sex workers are Canadians who deserve the full protection of our constitution, and do not deserve to be treated like we do not matter.

The time to act is upon you, and you are the only person who can prevent this law from putting sex workers in grave danger. You must stand up to him now. If you do not, you will either be standing with him, or standing idly by while predators and exploitative criminals use these laws to their advantage. There is no middle ground on this issue.

I implore you, Premier Wynne – please stand up for what you know is right.

http://www.msnikkithomas.com/open-letter-to-kathleen-wynne-stop-c36/
 

DigitallyYours

Off TERB indefinitely
Oct 31, 2010
1,540
0
0
Section 11 of the Charter clearly says: "Any person charged with an offence has the right to be tried within a reasonable time."

If you cannot be tried ever, then that is not a reasonable time. Therefore, a prostitute should never be charged under 286.2/4, which also means that any attempt at arrest is probably a violation of section 7.
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
20,458
14,981
113
This is going to get worse before it gets better and we can thank the Reform Party of Canada. The Committee and Senate hearings were a sham. They did not pay attention to anyone within the industry and believe all the women in the industry are not intelligent enough to know what they want and how to attain it.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts