The cops who established the trend and engaged in activities offered by the bawdy house, would have committed the very illegal act for which the patrons were arrested. How can you arrest one and not the other, as establishing the trend is indeed an admission of guilt in itself?
Never Talk To The Police
- Thread starter op12
- Start date
They won't be able to do that anymore, at least not against clients. Being found in a bawdy house won't be a crime anymore. On the surface it seems scarier that purchase will now be criminalized, but in reality it makes it more difficult to charge clients compared with the old law. Anyway, I think the bawdy house law was mostly used to target owners. They could use it as a bargaining tool to get women or clients to testify against the owner. I think the police will not change their priorities, but I don't know how this difference will affect the dynamic between LE, SP and clients.Today, undercover cops go to a strip club and are offered and receive blow jobs and FS, done over a six month period to show a trend. One night more cops show up and arrest all the guys for being found in a brawdy house.
Once again, paying for sex was never a crime (supposing police really did that). Simply the act of being in the bawdy house was a crime. Moreover, I'm sure undercover cops are allowed to be in illegal places during covert operations.The cops who established the trend and engaged in activities offered by the bawdy house, would have committed the very illegal act for which the patrons were arrested.
Already posted this as part of another thread but I feel it is important enough to be a stand alone thread.
Never talk to the police. Link
This video is based on American law but Canadian law is very similar. Note, if driving a vehicle you need to show ID but you do not need to answer any questions other than name and home address.
Am I under arrest officer?
Am I free to go officer?
Am I under arrest officer?
Am I free to go officer?
Am I under arrest officer?
Am I free to go officer?
Am I under arrest officer?
Am I free to go officer?
Edit: be polite, be respectful but never answer any questions.
I don't want to give specifics but a tourist who was illegally working, was a passenger in a work truck. They were checking for impaired driving and illegals (this is in York Region - Ontario). The kid was deported. As a passenger, could he have refused to identify himself?
Once again, paying for sex was not a crime (supposing they really do that). Simply the act of being in the bawdy house was a crime. Moreover, I'm sure undercover cops are allowed to be in illegal places during covert operations.[/QUOTE]
They may have been covertly in an illegal place, but they were also obtaining services from the illegal bawdy house, in order to establish it was a bawdy house. This is acceptable in court? Why would they not immediately arrest those involved once offered the services of the bawdy house. Would not supervisors and judges question this type of behaviour? I would.
They may have been covertly in an illegal place, but they were also obtaining services from the illegal bawdy house, in order to establish it was a bawdy house. This is acceptable in court? Why would they not immediately arrest those involved once offered the services of the bawdy house. Would not supervisors and judges question this type of behaviour? I would.
Two fantastic actors!If they see you walking out of the club there is not reason to deny that you were in there. If they ask me what I did in there, I would be polite without actually telling anything. Mimic your attitude on a politician when he is asked question in the House of Commons. Do not act like you want to keep silent, but do not actually answer the questions either. If they won't leave me alone, only then ask if I am free to go.
Best police interview ever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Je2WxsqWA
I was asked by a community officer something about partying and party girls over coffee, and I kindly replied, "Officer, the former Prime Minister of Canada said that the state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation, so I won't give any names sir". He was kind enough to leave me alone.
I have no idea to what extent the police actually ''investigates'' the services available in clubs, but I would bet they are allowed to do some illegal activities within the scope of the investigation while undercover. If they're investigating drugs, they may have to act as dealers and make actual deals, for prostitution they may have to act like prostitutes and communicate on the street to offer services (which was a crime even if no sex was actually had). These things are planned and I suppose an officer can't just do it on a whim.Would not supervisors and judges question this type of behaviour? I would.
This will be irrelevant under Bill C-36 which grants immunity to the working ladies.The cops who established the trend and engaged in activities offered by the bawdy house, would have committed the very illegal act for which the patrons were arrested. How can you arrest one and not the other, as establishing the trend is indeed an admission of guilt in itself?
What about cops who mix themselves with unsuspecting customers in the VIP who watch them getting lap dances (or possibly more?) and arrest them?
The male cops are posing as johns. I know that the ladies or sex workers are immune from prosecution under Bill C-36, but what about cops posing as customers? It's not like they aided or abetted other guys.
But this really isn't exercising your right to remain silent as most Lawyers, Judges or indeed Juries would see it. It is rather behaving like a "sea lawyer."Yea this could be true but it is sad. Exercising your right to remain silent shouldn't be interpreted as probable cause but who knows with the cops these days...
Well I should leave this to someone practicing in Canada - but my informed guess is NO, not just no but Hell NO.I don't want to give specifics but a tourist who was illegally working, was a passenger in a work truck. They were checking for impaired driving and illegals (this is in York Region - Ontario). The kid was deported. As a passenger, could he have refused to identify himself?
He is a good kid but the people who counselled him, were stupid or did it the wrong way.Well I should leave this to someone practicing in Canada - but my informed guess is NO, not just no but Hell NO.
If you take shortcuts, you get fucked. Same if you get arrested lol (I knew a Polish diesel mechanic - he was an awesome worker, but he got drunk one night and told a cop to fuck off, lol. Boom, he got deported. His brother was smarter and patient and is a Cdn citizen and home owner.)
Too many people are too easily intimidated by others who think they are in positions of absolute 'authority' when they are essentially doing nothing but quietly going along with their business. Police officers are the worst offenders in this regard, followed closely by 'security' types and 'inspector' types - each seem to think that their small individual mandates allows them free reign to trample indiscriminately on the individual rights and freedoms of others. If only everyday citizens would take more time to educate themselves about their rights, they'd find it much easier to deal with these assholes, and would spend much less time fearing them.
True too!Too many people are too easily intimidated by others who think they are in positions of absolute 'authority' when they are essentially doing nothing but quietly going along with their business. Police officers are the worst offenders in this regard, followed closely by 'security' types and 'inspector' types - each seem to think that their small individual mandates allows them free reign to trample indiscriminately on the individual rights and freedoms of others. If only everyday citizens would take more time to educate themselves about their rights, they'd find it much easier to deal with these assholes, and would spend much less time fearing them.
But being polite also goes a long way without getting into a fuss about rights.
The problem is that the types I mentioned above most often take your politeness as license to perpetually over-step the bounds of acceptable conduct within their mandate. I'm all for being civil, but these days, I approach my own upper of limits patience much quicker than ever before simply based on many years experience in dealing with BS. I'm simply not intimidated at all anymore. Especially by those that think they can cause you all kinds of administrative headaches simply because you didn't lower your eyes in quiet deference and blindly obey their every command.True too!
But being polite also goes a long way without getting into a fuss about rights.
You can politely remind them of your rights, like in my example (I wasn't going to out anyone, including escorts).The problem is that the types I mentioned above most often take your politeness as license to perpetually over-step the bounds of acceptable conduct within their mandate. I'm all for being civil, but these days, I approach my own upper of limits patience much quicker than ever before simply based on many years experience in dealing with BS. I'm simply not intimidated at all anymore. Especially by those that think they can cause you all kinds of administrative headaches simply because you didn't lower your eyes in quiet deference and blindly obey their every command.
However, if you display a disrespectful attitude, it doesn't help. Some officers appreciate respect so much, that they forget about the ticket so to speak when one is polite.
(I remember when I was a kid sitting in the back seat of my dad's car who was stopped by a cop with a radar. I didn't understand how he know my dad's name (obviously from the licence lol), so I asked "Why did he call you Mr. so and so". My dad said "He has to call me Sir".)
P.S. The cops remember the assholes especially, when they decide to appear in court.
Police are trainned to deal with the 1st year law student dickheads refusing to cooperate.
The simple answer is that if you did something, if you are guilty ,DO NOT answer any questions other than the minimum.
Be fucking polite. When you get to the station - that is where you clam up! Politely!
Police cannot make deals. Request a lawyer. Be polite and shut up.
Did I say shut up at the station.
Important to remember though - do not invite police into your home. If they knock and are looking for you or someone and ask to come in. Be fucking polite, tell them your place is a mess and no they cannot. If they say they do not mind. Say you do.
They can enter if they have cause and if they say they have cause - allow them in. The cause can be argued later.
But don't 'invite them' let them say they are entering and let them. Force them to invoke their reason to enter. If you invite them and they find that stolen Picasso hanging on your wall you are in trouble.
The simple answer is that if you did something, if you are guilty ,DO NOT answer any questions other than the minimum.
Be fucking polite. When you get to the station - that is where you clam up! Politely!
Police cannot make deals. Request a lawyer. Be polite and shut up.
Did I say shut up at the station.
Important to remember though - do not invite police into your home. If they knock and are looking for you or someone and ask to come in. Be fucking polite, tell them your place is a mess and no they cannot. If they say they do not mind. Say you do.
They can enter if they have cause and if they say they have cause - allow them in. The cause can be argued later.
But don't 'invite them' let them say they are entering and let them. Force them to invoke their reason to enter. If you invite them and they find that stolen Picasso hanging on your wall you are in trouble.
So I guess when you will NEED a Police Officer who won't TALK to them?This is primarily a Bill C-36 thread and is intended to discuss the proper response once it passes and you find yourself unfortunate enough to be the subject of police scrutiny.
Scenario. It is december 2014, Bill C-36 has passed and is now law. You leave a strip club in the downtown area. A police officer stops you.
Police: sir, good evening, how are you? were you just in that strip club?
You: yes, officer I was.
Police: the girls in there are very pretty, did you by any chance get a lapdance from one of them? I know I would if I was in there, it would be hard to resist.
You: yes they are beautiful, it is quite hard to resist, I did indeed get a lap dance.
Police: I like it when they grind their crotch against my crotch.
You: me too, in fact the dancer I just had did that very thing.
Bam! You are now under arrest for obtaining a sexual service for money. You have also confessed to the police about your culpabilty.
Short story: never talk to the police. Exercise your rights.
Proud Grandson of a Police Officer
Proud Father in Law of a Police Officer
You must feel,that everyone is out to get you, have a dislike for authority figures and must have studied philosophy and pre law in school. You come across as paranoid my friend!Too many people are too easily intimidated by others who think they are in positions of absolute 'authority' when they are essentially doing nothing but quietly going along with their business. Police officers are the worst offenders in this regard, followed closely by 'security' types and 'inspector' types - each seem to think that their small individual mandates allows them free reign to trample indiscriminately on the individual rights and freedoms of others. If only everyday citizens would take more time to educate themselves about their rights, they'd find it much easier to deal with these assholes, and would spend much less time fearing them.
Like I said, not all behave badly, and I'm all for being civil in initial contact, but I don't put up with the BS anymore. Mutual respect is demanded in any police interactions, a concept that many police service members sadly seem to forget the first time they strap on a sidearm.You can politely remind them of your rights, like in my example (I wasn't going to out anyone, including escorts).
However, if you display a disrespectful attitude, it doesn't help. Some officers appreciate respect so much, that they forget about the ticket so to speak when one is polite.
P.S. The cops remember the assholes especially, when they decide to appear in court.
Your last point simply reinforces my original comments. Why should average citizens have to expect vengeful retribution from spiteful agents of the law enforcement community if they don't abandon their rights and freedoms when confronted? Sounds like typical law enforcement fear mongering to me. I'll take my chances in court in the company of a good lawyer any day.
You must live in a fantasy land where all of those I listed above are kind, law abiding citizens themselves, who never overstep, and are always kind, courteous and empathetic towards the communities they are entrusted to protect. Google 'Mike Brown' for some extreme examples of these exemplary law enforcement angels.You must feel,that everyone is out to get you, have a dislike for authority figures and must have studied philosophy and pre law in school. You come across as paranoid my friend!
