Liberal MPP proposes to let cops impound cars if they find illegal handgun

boodog

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http://www.cp24.com/news/liberal-mp...d-cars-if-they-find-illegal-handgun-1.1927761

A Liberal backbencher wants to give cops the power to impound a car if an illegal handgun is found in the vehicle.

Toronto MPP Mike Colle says his private members' bill would also allow police to suspend the driver's licence.

He says he hopes it would act as a deterrent, adding it's almost impossible for police to get a conviction under the Criminal Code for anyone found to have an unlawful handgun in their vehicle.

Colle says the federal government has jurisdiction over gun ownership, but the province has responsibility for road safety and vehicle licensing.

He says he's received support for the bill from police forces and Toronto Crime Stoppers.

But a private members' bill rarely becomes law unless the government backs it.

I Agree
 

fuji

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Because the three year mandatory minimum jail sentence isn't enough of a deterrent?

Would they also impound cars for people who have legally owned handguns but forgot the paperwork at home? Seize your car as well as the firearm until you can get a court date to prove it is legally owned?

How do they prove at roadside that it is a restricted handgun and not a non restricted rifle? Some cases are borderline. Do they seize your car until you can find a firearms verifier to prove it is actually non restricted? Say if you have a mare's leg with a barrel just long enough to be counted as a rifle? What if it is a legal antique? Seize your car until you can prove it?
 

fuji

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What happens now if the cops find an illegal handgun in a vehicle?
Multiple very serious criminal charges. Unauthorized possession of a restricted firearm, unauthorized transport of a restricted firearm, possession of a weapon for a purpose dangerous to the public, and if it is loaded unauthorized carry. If convicted there are mandatory minimum prison sentences, three years in the slammer I believe, likely served concurrently.
 

fuji

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In addition to the practical concerns above I have a deep philosophical objection to creating a police state.

There is perhaps an expedient public interest in seizing a suspicious firearm until a charge is resolved, to prevent it being used. Similarly someone driving so recklessly that they are a danger to the public reasonably can be immediately suspended from driving until their case is heard.

But these are actions to protect the public, not punishment. Punishment should be left to a court in which the accused is innocent until proven guilty.

There is no reasonable connection between seizing a car and an illegal firearm, no concern that the car was going to put the public at risk.

So what is being proposed here is authorizing the police themselves to impose punishments on suspects before even getting in front of a judge. Literally making the police judge, jury, and executor of the punishment. All before any proof of guilt, all without any due process.

That creates a police state. I object on principle to authorizing ANY punitive action by the police. In any case where some property is seized it should be that there is a clear and direct link to public safety, getting a dangerous item away from someone who may use it to cause harm.

So no to this and to any other power of the police to seize cars just as a punishment where there is no concern that the car itself may be used dangerously.
 

cunning linguist

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Oct 13, 2009
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Some good news for a change, even though it's only a small step in the right direction.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2014/07/20140723-125833.html

POWASSAN, Ontario -- Gun laws in Canada are getting a major overhaul, government sources have confirmed to Sun News Network.

And as of Wednesday, in a separate regulation, owners of Swiss Arms and CZ 858 rifles can transport and use those rifles as they were previously classified -- non-restricted or restricted depending on barrel length -- before the RCMP prohibited them earlier this year.

Public Safety Minister Steven Blaney was expected to announce the new "Common Sense Firearms Licensing Act" and the extended amnesty regulation here later Wednesday.

The act, if passed, will limit the powers of provincial Chief Firearms Officers, make all firearm licenses possession-and-acquisition (PAL) licenses, make it easier for legal gun owners to transport restricted firearms around their home province, provide a grace period to renew expired gun licenses, make the gun safety course mandatory for new shooters, and strengthen gun ownership prohibition orders for convicted domestic abusers.

"These measures would streamline licensing and eliminate needless red tape for law-abiding gun owners," Blaney stated in a news release prior to the announcement. "It would also take steps to ensure that those convicted of domestic violent offences can be banned from owning firearms. My foremost priority is keeping the public safe, through common sense policies."

In 2012, the Tories also scrapped the controversial long gun registry.

But since then, some provincial Chief Firearms Officer have come under fire from the firearms community for imposing stiff arbitrary measures on gun ownership and gun sales under the clause 58(1) of the current firearms act that allows CFOs to attach "any reasonable condition" they see fit to gun licenses, business licenses and permits to transport restricted guns.

A government source said that power, in particular, will be curbed in the new act and will give elected lawmakers the final say.

Another major change in the new act is essentially a universal Authorization to Transport (ATT) for restricted firearms owners that will be a condition of their license. Effectively, the change will allow them to transport their handguns and other restricted guns to any legal destination in their home province -- any range, any gun shop, any gunsmith, and so on -- with the same ATT.

Currently, a separate ATT is required whenever a restricted gun owner wants to take his or her gun to a different range (other than the range at which they are a member) or any legal destination that is not their own gun club.

"This will remove about 99% of the bureaucratic paperwork required to transport restricted firearms," a government source told QMI Agency.

Gun rights advocates have long argued the excessive paperwork did nothing to improve public safety and was an unnecessary burden on legal gun owners.

But the ATT transportation rules will still apply, meaning gun owners will still have to double lock the firearm while in transit and they must travel directly between their home and their legal destination.

If passed, the act will also do away with possession-only licenses (POL) that currently allow some Canadians to own guns but not acquire new ones. All POLs will become Possession and Acquisition licenses, which will be the only type of license.

Other measures in the "Common Sense Firearms Licensing Act" expected to be unveiled by Blaney later Wednesday will make the firearms safety course mandatory for all shooters, meaning no one -- not even those with firearms experience -- will be able to challenge the firearms test without first taking the course.

And gun owners who let their licenses expire will not become so-called "paper criminals" overnight for owning guns without a valid license, but will instead be given a grace period within which they can renew their expired license.

The source said the length of the grace period has yet to be finalized.

The Minister is also expected to unveil a separate regulation -- to take effect Wednesday -- that will allow owners of Swiss Arms and CZ 858 rifles to use them and transport then as they did before the RCMP controversially and arbitrarily prohibited them earlier this year.

While those guns will still technically be classified as prohibited weapons, there will be an exception for people who already own them so that they can treat them as though they were never reclassified. (non-restricted or restricted rifles depending on barrel length.

But they can't be sold privately and are not available for sale at stores in Canada given their current prohibited status.

The amnesty for CZ 858 and Swiss Arms owners is in effect until March 2016.
 

elmo

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Oct 23, 2002
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Multiple very serious criminal charges. Unauthorized possession of a restricted firearm, unauthorized transport of a restricted firearm, possession of a weapon for a purpose dangerous to the public, and if it is loaded unauthorized carry. If convicted there are mandatory minimum prison sentences, three years in the slammer I believe, likely served concurrently.
Sounds like they need to enforce the existing laws. Adding new laws is useless unless they are enforced. Don't the libs have anything better to do?
 

cunning linguist

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Sounds like they need to enforce the existing laws. Adding new laws is useless unless they are enforced. Don't the libs have anything better to do?
Didn't you get the memo? Liberals like to harass and criminalize private gun owners. The existing charges do nothing to deter existing criminals who have already done their brief stints in revolving door prisons but had their records expunged by the YCJA and receive financial support for being unemployed, thanks to the Liberal hug-a-thug mentality. But it sure does ruin the life of an otherwise normal, law-abiding citizen who gets a criminal record and is no longer bondable because he's missing a piece of paper. If that's not bad enough, they want to steal his car too.
 

elmo

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Didn't you get the memo? Liberals like to harass and criminalize private gun owners. The existing charges do nothing to deter existing criminals who have already done their brief stints in revolving door prisons but had their records expunged by the YCJA and receive financial support for being unemployed, thanks to the Liberal hug-a-thug mentality. But it sure does ruin the life of an otherwise normal, law-abiding citizen who gets a criminal record and is no longer bondable because he's missing a piece of paper. If that's not bad enough, they want to steal his car too.
If the citizen was truly law-abiding and didn't want to risk a criminal record or not being bondable...wouldn't he get the paper in advance of getting the gun? Sounds like you need to re-evaluate the term "law-abiding".
 

cunning linguist

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If the citizen was truly law-abiding and didn't want to risk a criminal record or not being bondable...wouldn't he get the paper in advance of getting the gun? Sounds like you need to re-evaluate the term "law-abiding".
So, according to your logic, if you forget your wallet and therefore driver's license in another pair of pants or forget to put your car's registration in the glove box, you should go to jail?
 

elmo

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So, according to your logic, if you forget your wallet and therefore driver's license in another pair of pants or forget to put your car's registration in the glove box, you should go to jail?
Not at all, but we're not talking about a wallet, we're talking about an illegal firearm. How many wallets have been involved in shootings?
 

cunning linguist

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Not at all, but we're not talking about a wallet, we're talking about an illegal firearm. How many wallets have been involved in shootings?
And I'm talking about sending someone to jail over a piece of paper or lack thereof. Plenty of people have been killed by cars, but they don't send a tactical police team to your house to bounce you off the pavement, put you in cuffs and ransack your house to seize your vehicle, the same night your license expires.
 

elmo

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And I'm talking about sending someone to jail over a piece of paper or lack thereof. Plenty of people have been killed by cars, but they don't send a tactical police team to your house to bounce you off the pavement, put you in cuffs and ransack your house to seize your vehicle, the same night your license expires.
So you're OK with illegal firearms? The piece of paper is important in this case, this is not a driver's license. According to your logic, we might as well eliminate all paperwork completely, no reason to register or license anything, no reason to have passports...where would you draw the line?
 

fuji

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So you're OK with illegal firearms? The piece of paper is important in this case, this is not a driver's license. According to your logic, we might as well eliminate all paperwork completely, no reason to register or license anything, no reason to have passports...where would you draw the line?
There is a big difference between an illegal firearm and a lost registration certificate. As in your firearm is legally purchased and duly registered but you have misplaced the letter the RCMP sent that has the registration information. You WILL be able to get a new copy of it from the CFC, and in the meantime seizing your car is ludicrous.
 

elmo

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There is a big difference between an illegal firearm and a lost registration certificate. As in your firearm is legally purchased and duly registered but you have misplaced the letter the RCMP sent that has the registration information. You WILL be able to get a new copy of it from the CFC, and in the meantime seizing your car is ludicrous.
Correct but we're discussing illegal guns are we not?
 

fuji

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Correct but we're discussing illegal guns are we not?
How would the police know it is an illegal gun? If you cannot produce the registry certificate they may seize the firearm until you can. You then have two weeks to produce the registration.

Where is your car during this time?
 

sailorsix

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Sep 25, 2006
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I have no problem with further restrictions.
if you are too stupid to ALWAYS carry your paperwork then you are definitely too FUCKING STUPID to own any gun.
Matter of fact I would go one step further and take your illegal / undocumented gun and shoot you in your stupid fucking brain so that you are no longer a drain on society.
Gun owners have small weenies.
 

sailorsix

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How would the police know it is an illegal gun? If you cannot produce the registry certificate they may seize the firearm until you can. You then have two weeks to produce the registration.

Where is your car during this time?
Your car is being used in police college training simulations on how to take down fucking stupid gun owners.
 

fuji

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I have no problem with further restrictions.
if you are too stupid to ALWAYS carry your paperwork then you are definitely too FUCKING STUPID to own any gun.
Matter of fact I would go one step further and take your illegal / undocumented gun and shoot you in your stupid fucking brain so that you are no longer a drain on society.
Gun owners have small weenies.
I am guessing this is your unthinking knee jerk reaction to any proposal for additional regulation on firearms. Regardless of how stupid, ineffective, or ill conceived it is, you are automatically for it, whether or not you understand it. Right?
 
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