NFL Draft

[thumper18474]

Well,

The first round is in the books
Cleveland were the clear winners in round 1although the jury is still out on Manziel until her wins but should make for good copy for the Browns scribes! LOL
question is will they pay him what he thinks he is worth?...with the rookie caps in place now he actually may have to prove he is worth it first!

Houston might just have the best 1-2 punch with them draft Clowney on one side and J.J. Watts on the other to hunt the Quarterbacks now..
personally I think clowney will need to add about 30-40 lbs. if he expects to bull rush those 330-340 lb Tackles and get him some QB meat though!
Maybe they will switch him to OLB so he can either Stand up or down position?

I'm surprised Bridgewater went so low..I think he is a better passer and all round player than Johnny football..
I hate to say it but Maybe Jerry Jones might actually be thinking about bettering his team instead of just wanting to make a big splash in the draft by taking JM( I still think his ego is bigger than the house that jerry built)LOL

Detroit Drafts a 6-5 TightEnd? someone to take the heat off Megatron Maybe?
How'd you like to be a pair of 6-0 corners seeing those 2 monsters doing a crossing pattern at 20 yrds out??LOL..SPLATT!

Any other NFL fans out there wanna jump in here?
Thoughts?

 

[starzero4]

Well,

The first round is in the books
Cleveland were the clear winners in round 1although the jury is still out on Manziel until her wins but should make for good copy for the Browns scribes! LOL
question is will they pay him what he thinks he is worth?...with the rookie caps in place now he actually may have to prove he is worth it first!

Houston might just have the best 1-2 punch with them draft Clowney on one side and J.J. Watts on the other to hunt the Quarterbacks now..
personally I think clowney will need to add about 30-40 lbs. if he expects to bull rush those 330-340 lb Tackles and get him some QB meat though!
Maybe they will switch him to OLB so he can either Stand up or down position?

I'm surprised Bridgewater went so low..I think he is a better passer and all round player than Johnny football..
I hate to say it but Maybe Jerry Jones might actually be thinking about bettering his team instead of just wanting to make a big splash in the draft by taking JM( I still think his ego is bigger than the house that jerry built)LOL

Detroit Drafts a 6-5 TightEnd? someone to take the heat off Megatron Maybe?
How'd you like to be a pair of 6-0 corners seeing those 2 monsters doing a crossing pattern at 20 yrds out??LOL..SPLATT!

Any other NFL fans out there wanna jump in here?
Thoughts?

AGree on the Clowney/Watt combo. Unblockable. And w/ Watt drawing double-teams on every snap (run & pass) Clowney will be the beneficiary of a lot of one-on-one's. And they could even move Clowney around. Don't need to play them opposite one another, you could also line them up on the same side similar to how San Fran uses the Smith boys and run those double-games and do some special things. Clowney is at his best moving FORWARD though (i.e RUSHING). Playing OLB in a 3-4 scheme MAY require him to DROP some and COVER and I don't think that is what he does best. If I have Clowney on my team I want him moving forwards not backwards. Clowney definitely the best player in the draft for sure but I did think Mack was more scheme-diverse b/c of his coverage ability.

Teddy Football's (NFL Network Sapp reference) stock dropped b/c of the draft process. I honestly think too much emphasis is placed on the draft process. It is amazing how much his stock dropped from the end of the college season to the beginning of the draft. If you just use the tape to evaluate the QBs Teddy was probably the best QB. I like the Bortles pick by JAX though - he definitely looks the part of a prototypical dropback pocket passer.

Not a big Manziel fan - for a guy that played behind a GREAT offensive line at Texas A & M that included the likes of Joeckl & Matthews over the past couple years he took way too many hits. He ad-libs too much and doesn't read defenses well enough. The arm-strength and athletic ability is there but to me what thrives in this league long term is developing as a pocket passer and it remains to be seen whether he can or cannot do that.

 

[thumper18474]

I was hoping Bartles would've been around at 15...he is a rothlesberger clone
and a few years behind Ben would've been perfect..
but I guess the Gabbert experiment is over in a year ..2 max.

It'll be interesting to see who excels this season
The mathews pick should be able to step right in ..he has the genes
and bridgewater will get pushed into action sooner than the Viks will want to...but he is ready...NOW

 

[starzero4]

I was hoping Bartles would've been around at 15...he is a rothlesberger clone
and a few years behind Ben would've been perfect..
but I guess the Gabbert experiment is over in a year ..2 max.

It'll be interesting to see who excels this season
The mathews pick should be able to step right in ..he has the genes
and bridgewater will get pushed into action sooner than the Viks will want to...but he is ready...NOW

Was actually gonna make the same comment earlier. Some have suggested pro-comparisons for Bortles include Ben and Luck. Wanna be clear that I am NOT saying he will be as good as Luck but some of the attributes in those players also exist in Bortles albeit to perhaps a lesser degree. He definitely looks the part of a prototype pocket QB though. And I'll take that over a guy like Manziel anyday.

One of my issues w/ Gabbert has been toughness. He is not willing to stare down the gun-barrel and step into a throw when he knows he is gonna get hit. When he gets pressure in his face he is unwilling to step into his throw and that can affect accuracy, velocity, and completion %.

LOVE the Matthews pick too. You are spot-on with that thumper18474. He has the pedigree and the bloodlines as you said. And I think it was a wise move by Falcons brass NOT to trade up to the No. 1 spot. Clowney would have been huge for ATL as they needed a game-changer on defense but Matty Ice was also the most pressured QB in the league last year and 3rd most sacked if I am not mistaken so they definitely needed a LT to keep Ryan upright. If you are Atlanta brass its better to get a stud LT and keep your draft picks rather than get a stud edge rusher in Clowney and give up a king's ransom for it.

And I like the pick by Jerry Jones to continue building that O-line. The Dallas O-line started to become a real STRENGTH for that team last year. You got a franchise LT in Tyron Smith and they drafted a C last year in Fredericks that looks like he will be their franchise C for years to come.

 

[maurice93]

Well,

The first round is in the books
Cleveland were the clear winners in round 1although the jury is still out on Manziel until her wins but should make for good copy for the Browns scribes! LOL
question is will they pay him what he thinks he is worth?...with the rookie caps in place now he actually may have to prove he is worth it first!

Houston might just have the best 1-2 punch with them draft Clowney on one side and J.J. Watts on the other to hunt the Quarterbacks now..
personally I think clowney will need to add about 30-40 lbs. if he expects to bull rush those 330-340 lb Tackles and get him some QB meat though!
Maybe they will switch him to OLB so he can either Stand up or down position?

I'm surprised Bridgewater went so low..I think he is a better passer and all round player than Johnny football..
I hate to say it but Maybe Jerry Jones might actually be thinking about bettering his team instead of just wanting to make a big splash in the draft by taking JM( I still think his ego is bigger than the house that jerry built)LOL

Detroit Drafts a 6-5 TightEnd? someone to take the heat off Megatron Maybe?
How'd you like to be a pair of 6-0 corners seeing those 2 monsters doing a crossing pattern at 20 yrds out??LOL..SPLATT!

Any other NFL fans out there wanna jump in here?
Thoughts?

Some of your points seem inconsistent. You say cleveland was the clear winner, yet applauded reams that avoided johnny football.

 

[thumper18474]

Some of your points seem inconsistent. You say cleveland was the clear winner, yet applauded reams that avoided johnny football.

Actually I was referring to teams that draft needs as opposed to draft for the big media attention splash..
Cleveland needed a QB..personally I'd have gone for Bridgewater....he Is the more complete...player
Manziel meh...he played well behind 2 big stud O/L who kept the wolves at bay
But he is an improvement over who they have under center NOW.
Cleveland also nedded help on defence as they showed thier weaknesses last year
As we all know drafting is a crap shoot at best...Cleveland has taken a shot at Johnny Football being the real deal!! We shall see...if not atleast they have improved in other aspects of their game

THATS what I was getting at.....better?

 

[maurice93]

Actually I was referring to teams that draft needs as opposed to draft for the big media attention splash..
Cleveland needed a QB..personally I'd have gone for Bridgewater....he Is the more complete...player
Manziel meh...he played well behind 2 big stud O/L who kept the wolves at bay
But he is an improvement over who they have under center NOW.
Cleveland also nedded help on defence as they showed thier weaknesses last year
As we all know drafting is a crap shoot at best...Cleveland has taken a shot at Johnny Football being the real deal!! We shall see...if not atleast they have improved in other aspects of their game

THATS what I was getting at.....better?

Not really. Your still down on the first round pick of a team you said clearly had the best first round.

Most teams draft needs so not sure why Cleveland is getting a bunch of credit for it while others are not



Until you align your evaluation of the Cleveland draft with your opinion on the players they chose, your point earns a failing grade..

 

[thumper18474]

Not really. Your still down on the first round pick of a team you said clearly had the best first round.

Most teams draft needs so not sure why Cleveland is getting a bunch of credit for it while others are not



Until you align your evaluation of the Cleveland draft with your opinion on the players they chose, your point earns a failing grade..

And I stand by that assessment...because they addressed their bigger needs first...then IMO...they take a flier on Manziel..who could..and the emphasis is on Could be the steal of the draft.
Browns have 10 picks in this draft, and they got more next year now too..so why wouldnt they take a flier on him...A.J Mccarron is still aveilable as of about 10 minutes ago ..so they might just set up a competiton for QB...is the team better than the other teams right now based on who they drafted and needs being addressed..on paper YES they have improved in areas that needed improving..WHY..they had 3 picks thats why
When this draft is all said and done 1/2 their picks could be starters next season
Will that equate to wins on the field?..pffft crap shoot.
Personally I hate cleveland cus they are in the same division as my Steelers so I hope they fail miserably..LOL ...thats why they play the game isnt it

 

[starzero4]

The success of a running back in the NFL is dependent mainly on the beef up front opening holes. This is the main reason why the running back position has been devalued in the NFL. High profile failures like Cedric Benson (selected 5th overall by the Bears in the 1995 draft) and Trent Richardson (selected #3 by the Browns in the 2012 draft) have only served to underscore selecting a running back high in the draft is unnecessary. Testimony: Even though they had a glaring need with the departure of Chris Johnson, the Titans waited to use the 54th pick to make Bishop Sankey the first running back selected in the 2014 draft.

Which sets up a huge conflict between college football and the NFL. Because the running back is still the most prominent offensive position at the college level. Auburn doesnt make it to the championship game without Tre Mason (selected only in the 3rd round by the Rams). And neither does FSU without Devonta Freeman (selected in the 4th round by the Falcons). Several college quarterbacks are actually runners first and throwers second who will find it difficult to transition their skills to the NFL.

So here is the lesson: moms and dads (if they are around) dont let your kids become running backs - defensive backs and wide receivers earn much, much more in today's NFL.

Lot of good points and I agree with most of what you say.

Only thing I disagree with is the initial statement that "The success of a running back in the NFL is dependent mainly on the beef up front opening holes. This is the main reason why the running back position has been devalued in the NFL"

I don't think the offensive line plays any greater role in a RBs success today than it did 10 years ago or 20 years ago or before that. A RBs success is a function of many variables including the O-line but that has ALWAYS been the case. So if that were the main reason why would the position become devalued only in recent years? Wouldn't it have become devalued long before that?

I think the position has become devalued because the league in recent years has become more of a passing league - mostly because rule changes and interpretations have made it more favorable for teams to pass the ball. And there also seems to be a change in philosophy in that a lot of teams seem to be going to more of a RB by committee system rather than featuring a back. The danger in having a bell-cow is that if he gets injured there goes most of your running game but if you have a stable of backs one injury wont completely de-rail your ground game.


The other thing too is RBs generally have a short-shelf life and I'd rather use a high draft pick on a player that can be impactful on my team for the next decade rather than just 5 years. And the league has really become a 2-back league. Most teams use a RB by committee approach. Fewer bell-cows these days around the league. We can count on one hand the number of teams that FEATURE a back.

That said I wouldn't necessarily be averse to drafting a RB in the first round if it was a stud do-it-all 3-down back that can run, catch the ball out the backfield and pass-protect. Not saying I would necessarily but an elite complete RB I definitely wouldn't be against drafting in 1st round especially if my team had a hole there. At the very least I would still consider it.

The difference too is what RBs are asked to do in today's NFL. The league has become a PASSING league. A running back coming out of college needs to know how to catch the ball out the backfield & pass-protect more now than ever before. Pass-pro is key because a lot of backs in college aren't ask to pass-protect so it is usually the most difficult thing for a young back to learn at the next level.

And even though the league has become a passing league in recent years I still think a healthy running game is important to have. IF we look at some of the elite defenses in the league this past season (SEA, SF, CAR) all 3 also ran the ball often and effectively. So there is a correlation between having a strong defense and having a strong running game. Obviously being able to control the ball keeps your defense fresh. Also, the running game can help to regulate the pass-rush, set up play-action which can buy your QB an extra 1/2 second and create voids in the defense. And if you have a strong ground game it means you will see more single-high coverages which means more one-on-one matchups on the outside. Also, when you wanna clock-out a game a solid running game can be essential in that 4-min offense.

 

[thumper18474]

very few Running backs out of college make the big slash in the first couple years.... Adrian Peterson, Arian Foster to name a few.are the exceptions to the rule and the aforementioned Richardson.but for the most part I havent seen a Dorsett . a Walker or an Earl Campbell type runner dominate for a long time.
With the leagues penchant for the west coast Offence and the run and Gun type playbooks its almost as if the coaches are forgetting the run game.
Back in the day it was run the ball..run the ball..to keeps the LB in the box and draw in the safeties and C/B into it..THEN use the pass to open things up...
But now it the other way around Pass..pass..pass and then when the LB drops back into coverage or breaks the box to take on the T/E they run the draw!

Another theory is that with the teams taking green guards and tackles..it take a couple seasons to let them learn the position..Run Blocking technique takes time to perfect...some never do get it that and the fact that you got 4.5.6.years vets across from you who are doing swim moves..bull rushing and the like and it takes time to recognize it and adjust with your own style.

my steelers were always a Run first...pass when needed team...but in the past 5-6 yrs..they have totally gone to a pass happy offense...
I still dont like Haley..never did...Ariens was the best at getting the best out of Big Ben...I know Haleys is tryin to get him to do quicker reads and get it to the check off quicker to keep Ben more upright...but its the old ""can the leopard change his spots?""

Right now theSteelers scouting program should be eye balling 1 or 2nd year QB in College maybe even high school seniors..for the Eventual replacement for Ben.. look for a player who will fit the mold they want..

 

[starzero4]

You mentioned the conventional wisdom "the league has become a passing league" a couple of times. And yet the 3 successful teams you cited - Seattle, SF and CAR - contradict this strategy. They are old fashioned teams that run first and play a mean defence. The passing team Broncos was taken to the cleaners in the last Super Bowl by a team with a functional 5' 11" quarterback. John Elway, one of the most prolific QBs of all time, did not win a SB until Terrell Davis significantly upgraded the running game. Dan Marino never won a SB because the Dolphins never developed a running game. P. Manning won his only SB when passing was replaced by the effective running of Joseph Addae in the rain. So while passing first can lead to a gaudy regular season record, it does not automatically translate to success in the playoffs.

The point you made that I agree with the most is "RB by committee approach." Unless you have Adrian Petterson or Shady McCoy, then get 3 = 1.

I think you may have misinterpreted my comment or perhaps I didn't do a good job in stating it clearly enough - perhaps the latter. When I say the league has become passing league that is NOT to suggest that you cannot run the ball and be successful or that there aren't teams that run more than pass (there are still a small number of teams that do) or that a running team like SEA cannot beat a passing team like DEN. As I stated later in my post I gave specific reasons for why I think the running game can still be an important part of an offense. So I certainly recognize how the running game can be beneficial. When I say the league has become a passing league it is basically stating the FACT that the ball is in the air now more than ever before and teams in general (meaning most teams) are passing the ball more than ever before. Which is a fact. In this era the past 5-6 years the league is seeing more passing than ever before. I never once implied that that you cannot be a run-oriented team and be successful. If I did then I certainly apologize but I don't believe I did. Its not really about conventional wisdom - it is just a FACT that the league has become a passing league in that the ball is in the air more than ever before. But by no means does that preclude a run-oriented team from being successful.


I pointed out SEA, SF, CAR as teams that have run-oriented offenses to demonstrate that the ground game can still be a conducive formula for success in this league even if it isn't the norm in today's NFL which does NOT contradict the FACT that there is more passing in this league than ever before. Saying its a passing league is merely a statement on what is happening in the league (the ball is in the air more than ever before) not a statement on what can or cannot be successful.

Ladainian Tomlinson on TA a few weeks ago suggested that Beast Mode is in fact the most important player on the SEA offense because he is the tempo-setter and he sets the identity of that offense and team the way Pete Carroll wants the team to play. And also b/c much of Russell Wilson's success to this point is predicated off the success of Beast Mode as evidenced by the fact that SEA had the highest % of passes coming off of run-action in the entire league.

And to be honest I am not the biggest fan of guys like Kaepernick and Newton and while I like Wilson more than those 2 guys all 3 of them have a strong running game and strong defense as well. Newton as we saw last season is not a good deep-ball thrower. His accuracy on the deep-ball left a lot to be desired. CAR had a dink & dunk offense last season. While CAR was a great ball-control team they were near the bottom of the league in explosive plays which can make things problematic when you fall behind in a game and need to abandon the run-game. And Kaepernick goes beyond his 2nd read about as much as RGIII does - not very much. So with QBs like that I think you almost need a strong running game to complement them or it will be difficult to win.

I am a big fan of Shady as well. Is there a back that is better at making chicken salad out of chicken shit than Shady? This guy can make a positive gain on a play where he should be tackled 4 yards in the backfield. His ability to catch the ball out the backfield and his ability to make positive plays even when the blocking isn't great is remarkable. And in that Chip Kelly offense he is even more dangerous b/c I don't think there is a play-caller in the league that does a better job of getting his play-makers out in space than Chip. That dude makes you defend all 53 & 1/3 yards width of the field - every blade of grass. And Shady out in space is a scary thing for defenders.

And as thumper said even the Steelers of all teams have been passing the ball more in recent years and if that doesn't indicate the league is a passing league then I don't know what does.

 

[bestman007]

Denver is the clear winner. Roby is going to be a #1 corner in the NFL. Not bad for the 31st pick overall. WTF were the 49ers thinking by passing on him? The guy they drafted fills a need but could have easily been had in the 2nd round. This reminds me of what the 49ers did two years ago by drafting Jenkins with a 1st round pick and baffling everybody. Jenkins like Jimmy Ward was a player not projected for the 1st round who so far appears to be a bust in the NFL.

 

[thumper18474]

Denver is the clear winner. Roby is going to be a #1 corner in the NFL. Not bad for the 31st pick overall. WTF were the 49ers thinking by passing on him? The guy they drafted fills a need but could have easily been had in the 2nd round. This reminds me of what the 49ers did two years ago by drafting Jenkins with a 1st round pick and baffling everybody. Jenkins like Jimmy Ward was a player not projected for the 1st round who so far appears to be a bust in the NFL.

Is champ bailey gone?

This season and next will be an interesting one for sure...of all the rookies who makes the biggest splash???
And who goes bust?
Id like to Bortles shine but will his O line be able to protect him?
And is Manziel all sizzle and no steak? ( isnt kyle shanahan the O/C there now?)
Working with RG3 and designing his offense to max. His strengths might..just might be enough to keep manziel from being the second coming of Ryan Leaf....LOL

 

[bestman007]

Is champ bailey gone?

This season and next will be an interesting one for sure...of all the rookies who makes the biggest splash???
And who goes bust?
Id like to Bortles shine but will his O line be able to protect him?
And is Manziel all sizzle and no steak? ( isnt kyle shanahan the O/C there now?)
Working with RG3 and designing his offense to max. His strengths might..just might be enough to keep manziel from being the second coming of Ryan Leaf....LOL

I believe Champ Bailey signed with New Orleans. But he is a shadow of his former self. New Orleans may have the best safety duo in the league though with Jairus Byrd & Kenny Vaccarro so his ineptness may be masked when it comes to the long ball.

 

[starzero4]

I believe Champ Bailey signed with New Orleans. But he is a shadow of his former self. New Orleans may have the best safety duo in the league though with Jairus Byrd & Kenny Vaccarro so his ineptness may be masked when it comes to the long ball.

Byrd & Vaccaro will make for an excellent S-tandem. And they complement one another very well. You got Byrd the centrefield and Vaccarro the box-safety. However, with due respect to them I would still say the best S-tandem resides in the Pacific Northwest with Thomas and Chancellor. Byrd & Vacarro together could make for an elite duo though to be sure.