Toronto Passions

Religion declines in well-run, trusting societies

canada-man

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John Lennon was a dreamer. But he was not the only one.

In his famous song, Imagine, Lennon was not alone in being convinced institutional religions – and nations – are the key causes of war and impediments to universal peace.

But was Lennon’s refrain accurate? Evolutionary psychologists, including at the University of B.C., have probed just these questions through innovative experiments with subjects from Canada to Africa, Europe to South Asia.

They are concluding Lennon may have been half right – that humans can build fair and peaceful societies in which there is “no religion,” or at least in which spirituality shifts to a more private realm.

But UBC’s Ara Norenzayan and a team of researchers are finding the path to peace and cooperation definitely does not lie in imagining “there’s no countries.” Instead, they place high value on stable national governments that citizens can actually trust.

In his new book, Big Gods: How Religion Transformed Cooperation and Conflict (Princeton University Press), Norenzayan describes how Western Europe and Scandinavia have created strong and fair societies – in which the vast majority are not actively involved in religion.


As an evolutionary psychologist, Norenzayan believes most Scandinavians and Western Europeans, and to a lesser extent Canadians, have shifted out of their historical faith in powerful, interventionist “Big Gods” to a newer reliance on judges, police and public bodies.

Indeed, Norenzayan maintains organized religion remains most powerful in weak and fear-filled countries, such as Pakistan and the “failed states” of Africa.

In societies of old, Norenzayan writes in Big Gods, religion served as the key “social glue” that bound people together, often in a clannish way. It’s the role religion continues to play in Norenzayan’s troubled native country of Lebanon.

But now, in well-functioning secular countries, Norenzayan says the ties formed by religion are being replaced by public institutions that encourage collaboration and provide social services.

“It turns out that some of the most cooperative, trusting and well-to-do societies on earth, such as those in Western Europe and Scandinavia, are also the least religious in the world and the most reliant on government,” says Norenzayan.

Norenzayan is not alone in this theory. In Sacred and Secular: Religion and Politics Worldwide (Cambridge University Press), Pippa Norris and Ronald Inglehart also conclude religiosity declines when people feel “existentially secure,” with access to unemployment insurance, retirement support and universal medical care.

“Cross-cultural comparisons show that societies with more economic equality – that is, with a more egalitarian redistribution of wealth – are less religious, even after a host of other economic and demographic factors, such as gross domestic product, are accounted for,” Norenzayan says.

“Religion, essentially, is a Third World phenomenon.”

http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2014/04/26/religion-declines-in-well-run-trusting-societies/
 

Yoga Face

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religions job is to guide us to god

ironic that they do the opposite with their blind faith


Buddhism is a science

Dali Lama said prove any of his beliefs are wrong through science and he would change his mind
 

blackrock13

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religions job is to guide us to god

ironic that they do the opposite with their blind faith


Buddhism is a science

Dali Lama said prove any of his beliefs are wrong through science and he would change his mind
Buddhism is a science, how so?
 

Yoga Face

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I can't disprove a flying spaghetti monster either, and that isn't "a science". Buddhism is no better (or worse) than other religions - based purely on faith rather than evidence.
Dali Lama said so

there is no dogma in true Buddhism

He is willing to change his mind on any of his beliefs that science can disprove

It is experiential

you are not expected to belief anything you do not experience for yourself


Buddhism and science have increasingly been discussed as compatible, and Buddhism has entered into the science and religion dialogue. The case is made that the philosophic and psychological teachings within Buddhism share commonalities with modern scientific and philosophic thought. For example, Buddhism encourages the impartial investigation of Nature the principal object of study being oneself.

Jean Piaget's theory of cognitive development was published arguing that Buddhism is a fourth mode of thought beyond magic, science and religion.

Buddhism has been described by some as rational and non-dogmatic, and there is evidence that this has been the case from the earliest period of its history

Not all forms of Buddhism eschew dogmatism, remain neutral on the subject of the supernatural, or are open to scientific discoveries. Buddhism is a varied tradition and aspects include fundamentalism, devotional traditions, supplication to local spirits, and various superstitions. Nevertheless, certain commonalities have been cited between scientific investigation and Buddhist thought. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama, in a speech at the meeting of the Society for Neuroscience, listed a "suspicion of absolutes" and a reliance on causality and empiricism as common philosophical principles shared between Buddhism and science.



To some extent, this might be because much of Buddhism isn’t a “religion” at all, but rather a way of looking at the world. Indeed, the Buddha himself is described as having emphasized that he isn’t a god and shouldn’t be treated as such. And, in fact, there are no creator deities in Buddhism, nor holy writ, and so forth.

According to Tenzin Gyatso, better known as the fourteenth Dalai Lama, “Suppose that something is definitely proven through scientific investigation, that a certain hypothesis is verified or a certain fact emerges as a result of scientific investigation. And suppose, furthermore, that that fact is incompatible with Buddhist theory. There is no doubt that we must accept the result of the scientific research.”

Buddhism lends itself to a dialogue with science. Why? Because among the key aspects of Buddhism, we find insistence that knowledge must be gained through personal experience rather than reliance on the authority of sacred texts or the teachings of avowed masters; because its orientation is empirical rather then theoretical; and because it rejects any conception of absolutes.



 

blackrock13

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Jun 6, 2009
40,085
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Dali Lama said so

there is no dogma in true Buddhism

He is willing to change his mind on any of his beliefs that science can disprove

It is experiential

you are not expected to belief anything you do not experience for yourself


Buddhism and science have increasingly been discussed as compatible, and Buddhism has entered into the science and religion dialogue. The case is made that the philosophic and psychological teachings within Buddhism share commonalities with modern scientific and philosophic thought. For example, Buddhism encourages the impartial investigation of Nature the principal object of study being oneself.

Jean Piaget's theory of cognitive development was published arguing that Buddhism is a fourth mode of thought beyond magic, science and religion.

Buddhism has been described by some as rational and non-dogmatic, and there is evidence that this has been the case from the earliest period of its history

Not all forms of Buddhism eschew dogmatism, remain neutral on the subject of the supernatural, or are open to scientific discoveries. Buddhism is a varied tradition and aspects include fundamentalism, devotional traditions, supplication to local spirits, and various superstitions. Nevertheless, certain commonalities have been cited between scientific investigation and Buddhist thought. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama, in a speech at the meeting of the Society for Neuroscience, listed a "suspicion of absolutes" and a reliance on causality and empiricism as common philosophical principles shared between Buddhism and science.



To some extent, this might be because much of Buddhism isn’t a “religion” at all, but rather a way of looking at the world. Indeed, the Buddha himself is described as having emphasized that he isn’t a god and shouldn’t be treated as such. And, in fact, there are no creator deities in Buddhism, nor holy writ, and so forth.

According to Tenzin Gyatso, better known as the fourteenth Dalai Lama, “Suppose that something is definitely proven through scientific investigation, that a certain hypothesis is verified or a certain fact emerges as a result of scientific investigation. And suppose, furthermore, that that fact is incompatible with Buddhist theory. There is no doubt that we must accept the result of the scientific research.”

Buddhism lends itself to a dialogue with science. Why? Because among the key aspects of Buddhism, we find insistence that knowledge must be gained through personal experience rather than reliance on the authority of sacred texts or the teachings of avowed masters; because its orientation is empirical rather then theoretical; and because it rejects any conception of absolutes.
Nice Wiki C&P, but it really doesn't support what you claim, that Buddhism is a science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_science

Even your Tenzin Gyato quote doesn't claim that. More like they can go hand in hand.

Some on TERB want scientific proof of God, or even Jesus. All TG is saying please use science to prove us/our beliefs right or wrong, please. You make the same mistake that CM makes, that all religions involve a diety, Buddhism is one religion that doesn't fit that description.
 

Yoga Face

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religions involve a diety, Buddhism is one religion that doesn't fit that description.
correct


I am sure Buddha would disapprove that huge statues of him have been made

God is within and it is totally up to you to discover the god within

Buddha shows you the way but you must travel the journey

unlike Religions where all you have to do is believe
 

blackrock13

Banned
Jun 6, 2009
40,085
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correct


I am sure Buddha would disapprove that huge statues of him have been made

God is within and it is totally up to you to discover the god within

Buddha shows you the way but you must travel the journey

unlike Religions where all you have to do is believe
Not quite all you have to do. Many of the teaching are logically based and common among many religion. The Golden Rule is probably the best example. No belief needed there, just common sense.
 
Ashley Madison
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