You said this is a MLSE thing .... Teams Higher HOF players and give them president roles are all often doing this cause they are trying to mask the disaster which is presently occuring ... I think if the Leafs gave this post to Wendal Clark your point I wouldThanks for hanging on every word I type.
My rebuttal was for using the specific players he named in his post. The point was that if he was using those as an example, then they were contradictory to what I was saying because those specific players actually played for the teams that hired them.
We all know that not all players sign on in executive positions with the actual team they played for. However, you missed my point and deflected the issue I was bringing forward: Hiring and paying Shanahan (or any other retired player for that matter) for no useful purpose other than to distract fans and convince them they are actually doing something to fix the 1/2 century old train wreck.
Your scrutiny would be better served if it were directed at MLSE and not people who are pointing out the obvious.
If it was meant to be disregarded, why did you post it?Thanks for hanging on every word I type.
He did not use the best examples. You negated his point of choosing old players as prez with the seemingly valid point of who they played with. I then pointed out that there were numerous other teams utilizing the same tactic with non-alumni the same as the Leafs, meaning it is not just a "Leaf thing".My rebuttal was for using the specific players he named in his post. The point was that if he was using those as an example, then they were contradictory to what I was saying because those specific players actually played for the teams that hired them.
And how, exactly, do you know how the owners plan on using Shanahan? Did you attend the meetings? If not, anything you say is wild guesswork.Hiring and paying Shanahan (or any other retired player for that matter) for no useful purpose other than to distract fans and convince them they are actually doing something to fix the 1/2 century old train wreck.
Lol! I just love the way you guys dance here. You are really grasping at straws. That's what I meant about you hanging on every word I type. But you just proved my point...If it was meant to be disregarded, why did you post it?
He did not use the best examples. You negated his point of choosing old players as prez with the seemingly valid point of who they played with. I then pointed out that there were numerous other teams utilizing the same tactic with non-alumni the same as the Leafs, meaning it is not just a "Leaf thing".
And how, exactly, do you know how the owners plan on using Shanahan? Did you attend the meetings? If not, anything you say is wild guesswork.
As a fan Boober I 100% agree. Continuing to stress the minutae without going after the core issues of scouting and player development will only continue to keep this team out of it. They have the money to hire the best out there.Lol! I just love the way you guys dance here. You are really grasping at straws. That's what I meant about you hanging on every word I type. But you just proved my point...
Leaf fans don't really look at the big picture...they get lost in the little details (usually at the end of each disastrous season) and forget the basics.
Here are the basics once again:
- no cup in 46+ years
- no finals in 46+ years
- most lucrative NHL team by a healthy margin
- continue to raise ticket prices and sell the most expensive tickets in the league
- Leaf fans continue to enable the organization to make tons of money with a poor product
Everything else being said to justify why fans should remain loyal to this team is based on excuses and unwarranted forgiveness of an organization that has taken advantage of their fan base loyalty for generations.
Please quote my straw grasping.You are really grasping at straws.
I've been on this board long enough to have seen many posts like this one from someone apparently not a Leaf fan to come on here writing post after post trying to convince us why we shouldn't be Leaf fans. Its almost beyond normal human behaviour for someone to spend so much time and effort in doing something that's absolutely meaningless. You either have too much spare time because of a lack of social life, or you have a case of Morbid Jealousy that you should seek help.Lol!
Leaf fans don't really look at the big picture...they get lost in the little details (usually at the end of each disastrous season) and forget the basics.
Here are the basics once again:
- no cup in 46+ years
- no finals in 46+ years
- most lucrative NHL team by a healthy margin
- continue to raise ticket prices and sell the most expensive tickets in the league
- Leaf fans continue to enable the organization to make tons of money with a poor product
Everything else being said to justify why fans should remain loyal to this team is based on excuses and unwarranted forgiveness of an organization that has taken advantage of their fan base loyalty for generations.
His point was if you don't want to cheer for the team, then don't. But don't rag on the people who still want to.Smuddan....what about the ones who are fans? And tired of rah rahing the team? Is there something wrong with a real fan choosing not to watch or go when they feel the team is being mis-used as a cash cow rather then, as you put it, the reps for our city.
In fact one of the basis of my arguement is the ownership has a civic responsibility to place the best team out the its resourses can command. The Leafs have those resourses but haven't used them for decades to create a sustainable winning franchise this city can be proud of.
At some point I think its ok for a knowledgable fan to no longer be a Lemming. And to call out those who are as enablers of mediocrity. I'm a Fan.
And I demand more!
Shack I do understand. But as a fan I consider those who continue to cheer for them to be a detriment to motivating the ownership.His point was if you don't want to cheer for the team, then don't. But don't rag on the people who still want to.
When the team fails, there's nothing wrong for fans to be angry, demanding for better, or choose to abandon the team totally. I got angry myself watching the Leafs being totally dominated by the lowly Jets. It was absolutely unwatchable in the second period that I had to change the station. I had previously criticized the Teachers Pension group for their efforts when they owned the team. I criticized previous GMs for their handling of the team. That's what fans do. You as a fan has every right to call out the players, the GM, coaches and ownership when the team sucks, because this is OUR TEAM.Smuddan....what about the ones who are fans? And tired of rah rahing the team? Is there something wrong with a real fan choosing not to watch or go when they feel the team is being mis-used as a cash cow rather then, as you put it, the reps for our city.
In fact one of the basis of my arguement is the ownership has a civic responsibility to place the best team out the its resourses can command. The Leafs have those resourses but haven't used them for decades to create a sustainable winning franchise this city can be proud of.
At some point I think its ok for a knowledgable fan to no longer be a Lemming. And to call out those who are as enablers of mediocrity. I'm a Fan.
And I demand more!
Whatever they lose in ratings is less than what they are losing now by not having a contender/champion.Only a loss of ratings will motivate the owners.
I didn't say they didn't want it. Just that they keep making the same mistakes. There is entrenched a bad corporate way of doing things that seems to be self perpetuating, this despite new ownership. How else do you explain it? I can't.Whatever they lose in ratings is less than what they are losing now by not having a contender/champion.
The motivation for the organization to maximize profits is always there.
Does Rogers strike you as a company that is complacent with current profits and not motivated, knowing how much money a winner would bring? Highly illogical supposition.
Question for Tim Lieweke ??? Why higher the President after you signed GM to 5 years ...Tim Lieweke is a basketball and soccer man, about hockey he is no expert. The next decision he makes will be crucial, we don't need a repeat of 2003. If part of his solution is to separate the GM/President portfolio then I'm all for it. Burke rebuilt the scouting staff decimated by Peddie, two top managers with clearly defined responsibilities will be good for the club. Unlike 2003, the club isn't that badly off. We don't need a quick fix.
I don't blame you if you decide to stop being a fan. That's your prerogative. I respect that. I'm sure many have been frustrated enough to have done so; but IMO it's a naive thinking that lobbying others to stop being Leaf fans will have any real impact. If you've lived in TO for any length of time, you'd know it's not gonna happen. That's the reality.Ok. I get the semantic difference.
Unfortunately the arguements by Boober still stand. As do mine. The fans need to shut the TV off. Only a loss of ratings will motivate the owners.
MLSE has cash but when BMO needs reno's done they have their hands out for money ..If President doesn't want GM, he brings in a new one. That's the least of MLSE's problems - they have the cash for a bloated management structure. Don't be surprised if Shanahan adds some more people to work under him, similar to what he did in the NHL offices. He'll likely give Nonis some time to create a defensive identity for the team. If Nonis can't do it, he'll be gone.
Bingo. That is when the really big money comes in, from many different sources.the first step is to build championship teams.
Self perpetuating, same mistakes, but different owners making those mistakes. There is no explanation, aside from the supernatural or plain old bad luck.There is entrenched a bad corporate way of doing things that seems to be self perpetuating, this despite new ownership.
They bought the team to make big profits any way they can. Your above reason would be part of that.Rogers and Bell are owners for the content to help prevent the bleed of cable customers.
It would be hard to discount Rogers' years of experience in a major sport. Just because they've not had on field success doesn't mean they haven't learned. I think turning the Leafs into a winner is an easier proposition than the Jays. They are probably in similar positions regarding their current on field situations.The question is do any of them know sports, or just how to broadcast it.
