All three Provisions found to be inconstant with the Charter!!!!

[Maggies]

All three Provisions determined inconstant with the Charter!!!!

"Held: The appeals should be dismissed and the cross‑appeal allowed. Sections 210, 212(1)(j) and 213(1)(c) of the Criminal Code are declared to be inconsistent with the Charter. The declaration of invalidity should be suspended for one year.

The three impugned provisions, primarily concerned with preventing public nuisance as well as the exploitation of prostitutes, do not pass Charter muster: they infringe the s. 7 rights of prostitutes by depriving them of security of the person in a manner that is not in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice."

Invalidity has been suspended for one year. WHat this means is that everything stays the same for now. Police can still arrest and the courts can prosecute for up to one year. During which time parliament can bring in new provisions as long as they do not offend the Charter and conform tot he principles outlined in the SCC decision.

Here is a link to the decision!

http://scc-csc.lexum.com/decisia-scc...13389/index.do

 

[stewie.igp]

I dont feel good about this at all.
All these geniuses have accomplished is to convince the court that "given pros. is legal, you cant prevent them from hiring bodyguards etc etc"
this could very well remove the comprise between legal vs illegal that we had, which i say was working fine, and force the issue. And what if the issue is settled on the side illegalizing prostitution? then we are all screwed. I'll have to move out of the country. seriously there is no way in hell that i can get as much sex from as hot chicks as fast and trouble free as i am getting now. I'll have to completely destroy my liver and kidneys drinking in bars to pick up average girls that might have sex with me after their stupid 10 date rule or other BS is dealt with.

lets just hope that doesnt happen and the parliament does not make the act illegal.
Everybody should contact their MP and make a lot of noise, we should show some energy.

 

[Maggies]

Heehee, we wouldn't want you drinking yourself to death

Now is the time to start talking to your friends, neighbours, and family about supporting sex workers rights. It is an extremely contentious issue but Maggie's has many resources on our site to help with these hard conversations. Not everyone is against prostitution and there is enough research to sway the perspectives of those who may not understand or who may side with arguments that focus on eliminating the stigma or violence faced by women in the industry. Making prostitution illegal will increase harsh conditions, exploitation and violence. When workers in any industry lack power or legitimacy they are vulnerable to abuses. This is a fact.

At the end of the day we all (or at least most of us) want the same thing safety and dignity for women and "vulnerable" populations. I have seen people go from a place of complete ignorance to understanding after looking at the facts. Especially after today, I have more faith than ever.

One thing is for sure legal or not, prostitution is not going anywhere. I would like to hope policy makers will stay sensible enough to understand that making it illegal will only make it worse.

 

[GPIDEAL]

I dont feel good about this at all.
All these geniuses have accomplished is to convince the court that "given pros. is legal, you cant prevent them from hiring bodyguards etc etc"
this could very well remove the comprise between legal vs illegal that we had, which i say was working fine, and force the issue. And what if the issue is settled on the side illegalizing prostitution? then we are all screwed. I'll have to move out of the country. seriously there is no way in hell that i can get as much sex from as hot chicks as fast and trouble free as i am getting now. I'll have to completely destroy my liver and kidneys drinking in bars to pick up average girls that might have sex with me after their stupid 10 date rule or other BS is dealt with.
lets just hope that doesnt happen and the parliament does not make the act illegal.
Everybody should contact their MP and make a lot of noise, we should show some energy.

If you can only convince or persuade the rest of society or the courts how depriving you of the right to engage with sex workers is unconstitutional, then you can be the poster-boy for johns, should there be any anti-john legislation enacted.

 

[stewie.igp]

If you can only convince or persuade the rest of society or the courts how depriving you of the right to engage with sex workers is unconstitutional, then you can be the poster-boy for johns, should there be any anti-john legislation enacted.

Oh im sorry i didnt realize the burden is on me to justify why i should be allowed to see adult consenting escorts. I thought this was supposed to be a free country where the government stayed out of adult people's bedrooms.

I thought we had a higher standard requirement to put ppl in jail than "i dont think johns should be allowed in my city" or "I am offended by this", or "i think its demeaning to women"

cause i personally am offended when i see people go to church, and i find it very abusive and exploitative when people are told all kinds of crazy things about god and his anxiety over gays ...... moreover in the face of proliferation of books that say if you erect graven images you will burn in hell, i think all church goers mosque goers their ministers and donors should be in jail.


there is no such thing as a free country. its a myth. there is only oppression of the majority.

 

[Fallsguy]

A Phallic victory

Oh im sorry i didnt realize the burden is on me to justify why i should be allowed to see adult consenting escorts. I thought this was supposed to be a free country where the government stayed out of adult people's bedrooms.

I thought we had a higher standard requirement to put ppl in jail than "i dont think johns should be allowed in my city" or "I am offended by this", or "i think its demeaning to women"

cause i personally am offended when i see people go to church, and i find it very abusive and exploitative when people are told all kinds of crazy things about god and his anxiety over gays ...... moreover in the face of proliferation of books that say if you erect graven images you will burn in hell, i think all church goers mosque goers their ministers and donors should be in jail.


there is no such thing as a free country. its a myth. there is only oppression of the majority.

My fear is that this is one victory that this present government will not let us have. They will listen to only the most moralistic arguments and they will play to their social conservative base. Our only hope is that they don't get anything passed before the next election or any stupid moralising law they try gets tied up in the courts and doesn't pass a Charter challenge.

 

[baby_blue]

I do believe Harper and the Tories government will come up with a new legislation preventing Johns from accessing prostitution soon. At least, we have one more year guys. Enjoy it while you can.

 

[legmann]

I do believe Harper and the Tories government will come up with a new legislation preventing Johns from accessing prostitution soon. At least, we have one more year guys.

But that would be 'unconstitutional' and contravene the Charter, would it not (as per the SPOC verdict and very premise of the ruling)?

 

[stewie.igp]

I do believe Harper and the Tories government will come up with a new legislation preventing Johns from accessing prostitution soon. At least, we have one more year guys. Enjoy it while you can.

yep the nordic model is looking increasing inevitable. you've got "women's coalition" and "evangelical groups" calling for it. you've got peter mackay saying "this will not stand" and you've a conservative majority. you've got conservatives in UK and socialist in France all waging a war on this. not to bring up usa.

while the nordic model is supposed to only hit customers, it will make it much more dangerous for providers as well. all the respectful law abiding customers will be gone, the only ones left are gonna be criminals. because it will be a crime (probably and indictable offence = felony) each time you do it.

moreover every Canadian especially the politicians have circuitry in their brain that immediately sympathizes when they hear "nordic" cause they feel its so cool to be nordic or something, and the gov. ppl feel a constant need to define the country, they think if they dont do it we will be hit with unemployment to due insufficient identity or something.

the ppl who brought this suit however good their intentions might've been, actually shot themselves in the foot.

its like going to war with some1 way outside ur league. its like Haiti one day waking up and deciding to attack and colonize the US.

the only reason outcalls were legal and no one was concerned was because the law was outdated. when the law was passed, banning brothels and street solic. was enough to effectively make it impossible. then came internet, escort agencies, networks of trust, terb .......... and there was paradise for a while, and now we r gonna lose it.

like Milton Friedman once said: "I challenge you to show me a country that has been free most of the time, or a time when most countries were free"

the only hope we have is if we make enough noise and show enough "energy" , money, etc etc, to make politicians pay attention. politicians have ppl in their offices that read all emails/faxes/..... not to just gauge the size of a faction, but its energy level, how much it cares, how critical is this issue for them, will they actually vote on this issue only ....

this is very serious, all agencies and customers and terbites, need to move their asses, if they like what they have.

call up all the MPs, especially the tories (they will decide). use libertarian/limited gov./...... talking points with the tories (dont forget to cite ron paul), and women's rights/support the hippies/secular society/ liberation and celebration of sex and diversity/........ with the libs....

thanks

 

[stewie.igp]

But that would be 'unconstitutional' and contravene the Charter, would it not (as per the SPOC verdict and very premise of the ruling)?

nope the supreme court ruling was like this

"since the parliament hasnt banned the act (of sex work) itself, providers are engaged in something legal. risky but legal. now on what basis has the government disallowed them to hire security, operate incalls??? which the court found to be safer for providers. the courts answer is none. there is no basis for telling some1 who is doing a legal activity that they cant hire protection while they do it ......"

thats why the current laws are declared unconstitutional. this will likely destroy the current compromise. and force the parliament to ban the act itself, which they are perfectly allowed to do.

what seems like a victory is no such thing of the kind whatsoever.

 

[baby_blue]

nope the supreme court ruling was like this

"since the parliament hasnt banned the act (of sex work) itself, providers are engaged in something legal. Risky but legal. Now on what basis has the government disallowed them to hire security, operate incalls??? Which the court found to be safer for providers. The courts answer is none. There is no basis for telling some1 who is doing a legal activity that they cant hire protection while they do it ......"

thats why the current laws are declared unconstitutional. This will likely destroy the current compromise. And force the parliament to ban the act itself, which they are perfectly allowed to do.

What seems like a victory is no such thing of the kind whatsoever.

you are totally right on this.

 

[baby_blue]

yep the nordic model is looking increasing inevitable. you've got "women's coalition" and "evangelical groups" calling for it. you've got peter mackay saying "this will not stand" and you've a conservative majority. you've got conservatives in UK and socialist in France all waging a war on this. not to bring up usa.

while the nordic model is supposed to only hit customers, it will make it much more dangerous for providers as well. all the respectful law abiding customers will be gone, the only ones left are gonna be criminals. because it will be a crime (probably and indictable offence = felony) each time you do it.

moreover every Canadian especially the politicians have circuitry in their brain that immediately sympathizes when they hear "nordic" cause they feel its so cool to be nordic or something, and the gov. ppl feel a constant need to define the country, they think if they dont do it we will be hit with unemployment to due insufficient identity or something.

the ppl who brought this suit however good their intentions might've been, actually shot themselves in the foot.

its like going to war with some1 way outside ur league. its like Haiti one day waking up and deciding to attack and colonize the US.

the only reason outcalls were legal and no one was concerned was because the law was outdated. when the law was passed, banning brothels and street solic. was enough to effectively make it impossible. then came internet, escort agencies, networks of trust, terb .......... and there was paradise for a while, and now we r gonna lose it.

like Milton Friedman once said: "I challenge you to show me a country that has been free most of the time, or a time when most countries were free"

the only hope we have is if we make enough noise and show enough "energy" , money, etc etc, to make politicians pay attention. politicians have ppl in their offices that read all emails/faxes/..... not to just gauge the size of a faction, but its energy level, how much it cares, how critical is this issue for them, will they actually vote on this issue only ....

this is very serious, all agencies and customers and terbites, need to move their asses, if they like what they have.

call up all the MPs, especially the tories (they will decide). use libertarian/limited gov./...... talking points with the tories (dont forget to cite ron paul), and women's rights/support the hippies/secular society/ liberation and celebration of sex and diversity/........ with the libs....

thanks

I totally agree with you 110% but I don't think many guys want to come out making noise. They might be labelled in a negative way by friends and family members. People are not that brave any more like the way they used to be. Guys are not willing to be arrested for this cause, even though they really want to. I guess the end is near and we just have to accept it sooner or later. Its not our world anymore. The world has gotten faster and faster and I feel sorry for the next few generations coming up.

 

[stewie.igp]

I don't think many guys want to come out making noise.

unfortunately that is probably true.

and i just read my own post, i really bombed the spelling there

 

[baby_blue]

unfortunately that is probably true.

and i just read my own post, i really bombed the spelling there

No worries. You have very good writing skills. If you were a female I date you. lol

 

[stewie.igp]

If you were a female I date you

I would be very very very expensive and very mean.

I dont think u could handle me.

 

[Anynym]

This case was argued on the basis of vulnerable women on the street being afraid to call the police.

Yet far too many of those women are being victimized by 'pimps', and/or are facing other problems such as drug addiction.

Will this ruling encourage some woman who has a drug addiction to call the police? Now that the Supreme Court has ruled that pimping should be legal, what do you think those pimps will do?