Attack on Syria is it justified ?

[nobody123]

What is truly sad here is the number of posts on the theme of you can never trust the government or military or intelligence services. Rather than on whether intervention is wise, potential unexpected consequences, what can be done to prevent genocide etc. . . .

No. What's sad is your refusal to accept that said lack of trust speaks directly to the issue of intervention. We've been on this ride before, and pretty much every time the U.S. steps up to the merry-go-round, innocents die and whatever new bobblehead gets placed in charge ends up being as bad as or worse than the evil dictator they deposed.



edited to add: LBJ was a cunt but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who remembers him. Not exactly part of the ole zeitgeist anymore, ya know? Cute deflection though.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

What is truly sad here is the number of posts on the theme of you can never trust the government or military or intelligence services. Rather than on whether intervention is wise, potential unexpected consequences, what can be done to prevent genocide etc. . . .

Yeah gee, now what would make me weary of what the US government says.

Gulf of Tonkin?? Weapons of mass-destruction??!

Naaaw......that wouldnt be it, would it?!

 

[basketcase]

No, you misread my post.

I'm saying if the Left doesnt complain about Kerry meeting up with Assad, they can have no gripes for Rumsie meeting up with Saddam before the Gulf war

The difference was that at the time the US was on good terms with Saddam. Can't say the same about Syria.

 

[basketcase]

Just read that the French secret service is claiming that the number of victims is much lower than what the US claimed.

No more than 300 victims.


Somebody has a big nose.....

That makes it all better.


p.s. Did the French assign blame in that story?

 

[afterhours]

What is truly sad here is the number of posts on the theme of you can never trust the government or military or intelligence services. Rather than on whether intervention is wise, potential unexpected consequences, what can be done to prevent genocide etc. . . .

Consequences would presumably be that some people in Syria would die and some people in US would get richer.

 

[Aardvark154]

Consequences would presumably be that some people in Syria would die and some people in US would get richer.

And perhaps that large numbers of others might not die, that other leaders such as Assad might decide the risks of using nerve gas on their own people in violation of just about every rule of civilized behaviour and a number of treaties wasn't worth the risk, that Iran might be convinced that when the U.S. and other states said we will not tolerate you having a nuclear weapon, they mean it.

 

[yolosohobby]

While that is true...

Which president would you blame for people having come to mistrust the US government?

This one.
The media tarred Bush for WAY less .

 

[afterhours]

And perhaps that large numbers of others might not die, that other leaders such as Assad might decide the risks of using nerve gas on their own people in violation of just about every rule of civilized behaviour and a number of treaties wasn't worth the risk, that Iran might be convinced that when the U.S. and other states said we will not tolerate you having a nuclear weapon, they mean it.

Yeah, let's bomb Syria to convince Iran. Cuz Iraq and Afghanistan was not convincing enough. But Syria will do it.

What I would like to know is how Halliburton etc transfer kickbacks to decision makers who start wars. That must be a hell of a transaction.

 

[yolosohobby]

And perhaps that large numbers of others might not die, that other leaders such as Assad might decide the risks of using nerve gas on their own people in violation of just about every rule of civilized behaviour and a number of treaties wasn't worth the risk, that Iran might be convinced that when the U.S. and other states said we will not tolerate you having a nuclear weapon, they mean it.

The US rules of engagement, politically correct mentality, lawyers called in when its time to 'take the shot" have all given the real extremists the perception that the US isn't in it to win it. The extremists mentality is that if the US is just gonna use drones, and cruise missiles and not go door to door and fight , they are beatable, they arent willing to ask their soldiers to die. And all of this kvetching is played out on worldwide TV and trust me, the coverage they get over there would be literally mocking the US right now . And for good reason.

The way the US pulled our of IRAQ (no victory and nothing good left behind), the way they are pulling out of Afghanistan (same), upset the apple cart and ran away in Egypt (heloed overthrow a democratically elected government, albeit a scary one), let the Benghazi killers go free (what difference does it make?) .... and now this "red line" crap?

There must be veterans in America tonight, who didn't think it could get worse than it did in Jimmy Carters years, just crying in the Budweisers and bourbon. The good news? Reagan came right after Carter. I dont say this because Reagan was some great conservative, he really wasn't, BUT he was at least and most importantly a uniter. He pulled America together and made Americans feel good about America again . The world is better when America feels good about America.

 

[yolosohobby]

Yeah, let's bomb Syria to convince Iran. Cuz Iraq and Afghanistan was not convincing enough. But Syria will do it.

What I would like to know is how Halliburton etc transfer kickbacks to decision makers who start wars. That must be a hell of a transaction.

Exactly correct. This contemplated action is absolutely zero deterrent.
Its more the GEs, Lockheeds, General Dynamics, Dyncorps, SAIC, L3, Raytheon, who benefit from war // military spending. and of course the politicians who provide the funds to procure the stuff thee contractors sell, for which the contractors hire lobbyists who donate beaucoup d'argent to the politicians, who then go work for the contractors or the lobbyists for multi million/ year salaries.

 

[Questor]

What I would like to know is how Halliburton etc transfer kickbacks to decision makers who start wars. That must be a hell of a transaction.

Its called unlimited and anonymous campaign donations. Its made Congress beholden to rich corporations instead of citizens and destroyed American democracy.

 

[afterhours]

Its called unlimited and anonymous campaign donations. Its made Congress beholden to rich corporations instead of citizens and destroyed American democracy.

Oh I didn't realize its so simple. Just looked it up. Wow. It's amazing that there is not so many wars that US runs at any given time. Very noble of them.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

The difference was that at the time the US was on good terms with Saddam. Can't say the same about Syria

Okay, but the US had no way of knowing at that time Saddam was gonna invade Kuwait. And up until that time Iraq had been a US ally.

Syria was not a US ally, so why Did Kerry have a cozy dinner with Assad and his wife??!

 

[Smallcock]

And perhaps that large numbers of others might not die, that other leaders such as Assad might decide the risks of using nerve gas on their own people in violation of just about every rule of civilized behaviour and a number of treaties wasn't worth the risk, that Iran might be convinced that when the U.S. and other states said we will not tolerate you having a nuclear weapon, they mean it.

You're smarter than this.

Let us know when the US nukes North Korea.

 

[nobody123]

This one.
The media tarred Bush for WAY less .

When you say "WAY less" you of course mean taking the unprecedented level of international goodwill in the wake of 9/11 and turning it into an unprecedented level of hatred for America worldwide, starting two wars, one of them with a country that had as much to do with terrorism as Finland, introducing unlimited detention without criminal charges, reintroducing the beloved institution of torture, pushing tax cuts for the richest of the rich while leading the country and the world to the brink of economic collapse, and installing all the domestic spying programmes that Obama is catching shit for right now? Oh yeah. Way less.

 

[Aardvark154]

Syria was not a US ally, so why Did Kerry have a cozy dinner with Assad and his wife??!

Because diplomacy involves getting to know those you are not crazy about as much as it does those you love. This dinner took place during a fact finding mission undertaken with the full concurrence of the Department of State and it took place before the outbreak of the Syrian civil war.

 

[Aardvark154]

one of them with a country that had as much to do with terrorism as Finland

Was Finland making constant attempts to shoot down aircraft patrolling no fly zones?

 

[yolosohobby]

When you say "WAY less" you of course mean taking the unprecedented level of international goodwill in the wake of 9/11 and turning it into an unprecedented level of hatred for America worldwide, starting two wars, one of them with a country that had as much to do with terrorism as Finland, introducing unlimited detention without criminal charges, reintroducing the beloved institution of torture, pushing tax cuts for the richest of the rich while leading the country and the world to the brink of economic collapse, and installing all the domestic spying programmes that Obama is catching shit for right now? Oh yeah. Way less.

The unprecedented level of hatred for America is today, September 3 2013.
The liberal congress thru the community reinvestment act and their outrageous defined benefit pensions which forced asset managers to reach for extra returns caused the financial crisis. Throw in Clinton repealing Glass Steagal and voila recipe for super leverage and disaster. The actual economy performed way better under Bush than Obama.
Your last point is just stupid. You are blaming Bush for the spying Obama is doing? that is rich. Obama uses the instruments of government to punish Americans , like the IRS scandal as an example. He never stops pounding the "rich", well the rich who make their money from industry and not the media and other liberal bastions.
i have zero doubt history will look much more finely on Bush than it does on Obama- although historians like Douglas Brinkley will try their very best to see exactly how far they can get their craniums up Obamas derriere.

I was not in favour of the war in Iraq. BUT Bush did go to the UN and Congress to get authorization and had at least 50 other countries onside. I do know that the retreat by Obama has been mismanaged too .... the failure to do a deal w the Status of Forces agreement was a bug mistake

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Funny meme

Because diplomacy involves getting to know those you are not crazy about as much as it does those you love. This dinner took place during a fact finding mission undertaken with the full concurrence of the Department of State and it took place before the outbreak of the Syrian civil war

But since rebels started the attack on the Syrian government, isnt Assad allowed to defend his country from them, in the same way Obama would be allowed to defend America if anarchists tried to take over the USA??!

 

[fuji]

lbj

(TERB apparently thinks capitalizing the initials LBJ on their own is shouting)

Do you think maybe lying to the UN about the quality of intelligence available on Iraq had contributed to people's disbelief in American claims?