Man with knife on streetcar at Dundas and Grace, shot by police

[rafterman]

Editorial from the Globe today.

I think these are reasonable questions that need to be answered.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/comm...the-questions-for-the-police/article13514528/

The investigators looking into the shooting of Sammy Yatim early last Saturday morning should focus on two things: the high number of shots fired by one officer; and whether or not the police could have retreated and allowed an agitated 18-year-old boy time to calm down and take himself out of harm’s way. Either a convincing case must be made that lethal force was the only option, or action must be taken against the officers involved. A good degree of public confidence in the Toronto police hangs in the balance.

More Related to this Story
•
Toronto Toronto witness recalls scene on streetcar before Sammy Yatim’s death

•
Police Toronto officer being investigated in streetcar shooting death has been identified

•
Editorial A knife-wielding teenager and standard police training



Watch

Video: Police chief recognizes needs for answers in Toronto streetcar shooting


Watch

Video: Witnesses capture fatal streetcar shooting involving Toronto police

At this point, the public knows only what has been revealed by videos posted on the Internet or released to the media. In one video, Mr. Yatim can be seen at the front of an otherwise empty streetcar brandishing what appears to be a knife. The front doors to the streetcar are open, and two police officers are aiming their handguns at Mr. Yatim and yelling at him to “drop the knife.” Mr. Yatim retreats into the streetcar. Then he quickly moves back toward the doors. An officer fires three quick shots into the doorway. Thanks to a new video made public on Tuesday, we now know that those shots felled Mr. Yatim. The officer who fired the three shots pauses, then fires another six rounds in a more deliberate fashion, as Mr. Yatim lies crumpled on the floor of the streetcar.

The SIU has confirmed that Mr. Yatim suffered multiple gunshot wounds, and that he was tasered after all the shots were fired. The public has learned that Mr. Yatim was a teenager born in Syria who emigrated to Canada with his family. His friends wonder why he was alone that night and so far away from his home across the city. They worry that he was lost and somehow disoriented. They cannot understand why he pulled a knife, exposed himself and ordered the passengers and driver off the streetcar, as witnesses have said. And even if that is true, they can’t understand why he had to die for it.

Could the police have shut the streetcar’s doors from the outside and waited for Mr. Yatim to calm down? Could they have backed away and established a safe perimeter while trying to de-escalate the situation? And why nine shots? Statistics show that the entire Toronto police force discharges their weapons a total of 20 to 30 times a year; nine from one officer against one suspect is very unusual. Previous SIU investigations into police shootings show that the more typical number fired is two or three.

These are the questions people want answered. They have a right to a transparent investigation, the conclusions of which don’t jar with what they have seen with their own eyes.

 

[escortsxxx]

Actually, that is incorrect. Cops are not trained to shoot to "kill" They are trained to shoot at the largest and easiest target, the center mass - that is the chest. They are trained to shoot to stop the target. When the target falls and is no longer a threat they stop. They are not trained to fire bullets at a downed target till they are dead. If they where, they failed there training as the target was still alive. Shooting an unmoving target is not part of there training, it is counter to it. Thought you are correct about the the arm and leg shoots. These shoots are only done in movies and put others at risk, both because the shoot will likely go wild and miss, and second, because the target will be able to shoot back and kill someone.

 

[blackrock13]

Ok, shouldn't posts in a thread be about the thread and not about how long a poster has been a member? I'm not responding to these useless posts anymore, PM me if you have some type of beef with me.

Nice try. If you can't discuss subjects openly in the various forum, don't expect others to want to carry on in PMs away from easy criticisms of the membership. You have so much to learn grasshopper.

 

[Julian]

It'll be funny when you get beat up by a retard on a TTC streetcar and the cops taser you instead ... :eyebrows:

That's exactly what we've come to expect of our police force, nothing funny about it though.

 

[Narg]

And this has exactly what to do with the topic? Nice try, troll.

15 posts in and you've already established yourself as a buffoon. Rather than double down on "troll" accusations, how about you take a shot at taking the high road?

As for the cop, he's either not going to be disciplined or, in the unlikely event he is ever charged, he'll be acquitted. Reasonable doubt applies to police officers too. The dead teen was waiving a knife and not following directions from armed officers. The amount of debate on this thread indicates that there is reasonable doubt about whether the officer acted correctly or not.

 

[Julian]

You must have missed the part where he exposed himself on the bus, not normal or legal.

Yeah that certainly calls for execution without trial.

The fact that Police Chief Wiggum, I mean Blair, has suspended the cop speaks volumes about the incident. At Blair's presser, you can see he's had it with these power abusing thugs on the force. These types of idiots are the minority, but they give the entire profession a bad name.

 

[Rockslinger]

Will the Yatim family sue the police, the TTC, Mayor Ford, etc. for financial compensation? Clayton Ruby will probably take the case pro-bono.

 

[Carling]

If you find something wrong with one of my posts about this topic, sure post it on the thread and I will try and explain my stance. If you have a beef with me, stop cluttering the thread with personal nonsense. PM me.

lol... btw just cuz of your posts, i will not help out with Sps or Mpa's..

 

[5hummer]

Perhaps one in four would be carrying, those who had been promoted for years of good service works be trusted.

Sorry Fuji, this is a ridiculous idea.

I'm not always a fan of the Police, but this will put an officer at great risk in public - -especially in emergency situations.

 

[fuji]

Have you watched the video????

At least 3 officers had guns drawn and trained on the assailant. Are you suggesting all the police officers should have opened fire? :frusty: (That certainly would satisfy the "cops are gun toting menaces terrorizing our streets" crowd! )

It really isn't that clear. There were several officers who did not have their guns drawn and look pretty relaxed but are presumably facing the same risk.

What explains the discrepancy? Why do they apparently feel safe enough to have their guns holstered while the shooter had not only drawn but actually fired?

You can also see other cops physically pull the shooter back afterwards. Is that because they think he is a hothead who is going to continue shooting?

These are questions that the ex cop linked above asked on seeing the video.

 

[Rockslinger]

It really isn't that clear. There were several officers who did not have their guns drawn and look pretty relaxed but are presumably facing the same risk.

But, there may be other situations. What happens if an officer is attacked by 3 men armed with machetes and all he has is a water pistol?

 

[fuji]

Sorry Fuji, this is a ridiculous idea.

I'm not always a fan of the Police, but this will put an officer at great risk in public - -especially in emergency situations.

Do you have proof of this assertion?

Toronto is not the Wild West. If you review all of the police use of guns over the past twenty years I think there are no cases at all that support your viewpoint.

 

[blackrock13]

Yeah that certainly calls for execution without trial.

The fact that Police Chief Wiggum, I mean Blair, has suspended the cop speaks volumes about the incident. At Blair's presser, you can see he's had it with these power abusing thugs on the force. These types of idiots are the minority, but they give the entire profession a bad name.

A suspension with pay is not an indication of the seriousness of the situation, it's regulation for this type of incident under SIU investigation.
You're certainly not given desk duty. It's the quickest way to protect the officer from accusation of interference.

 

[blackrock13]

Am I supposed to care?

Do you know Simon?

Nah, he didn't hobby.

 

[red]

any pictures from facebook page of officer?

 

[5hummer]

Do you have proof of this assertion?

Sure. A dead police officer.

 

[Butler1000]

Yeah that certainly calls for execution without trial.

The fact that Police Chief Wiggum, I mean Blair, has suspended the cop speaks volumes about the incident. At Blair's presser, you can see he's had it with these power abusing thugs on the force. These types of idiots are the minority, but they give the entire profession a bad name.

In ontario, unless criminal charges have been laid, no police force can suspend an officer without pay pending an SIU investigation.

In fact Chief Blair has been vocal(anlong the several other chiefs) in his opposition to this. Ontario is the only province like this. They don't like for this very reason. That I t makes them look bad. Them and the force.

Blair is a good chief. If you're going to trash him, at least do it without writing falsehoods.

 

[blackrock13]

Why do people here feel the need to attack the poster and not their posts? Does my post count somehow make my opinion invalid? Why don't you take the high road and STFU?

Didn't you only want to discuss the topic? Apparently not. Do you know Rockslinger?

 

[Julian]

A suspension with pay is not an indication of the seriousness of the situation, it's regulation for this type of incident under SIU investigation.
You're certainly not given desk duty. It's the quickest way to protect the officer from accusation of interference.

I did not refer to the paid holiday part of the suspension, just the fact that the officer has been suspended immediately, it's been called unprecedented and even TPA President Mike McCormack has called the suspension "extraordinary".

 

[blackrock13]

I did not refer to the paid holiday part of the suspension, just the fact that the officer has been suspended immediately, it's been called unprecedented and even TPA President Mike McCormack has called the suspension "extraordinary".

McCormick is simply marking his territory and protecting his TPA members, little more. You mentioned the suspension, but didn't mention it was a paid suspension. As said before, the paid suspension is the quickest way to get the officer out of the line of fire from all sides and almost eliminate any chance of accusations of interference.