No Secret Spying: Sign the Petiton from OpenMedia.ca

yung_dood

Banned
Jul 2, 2011
1,698
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Sign the Petition
http://openmedia.ca/secretspying?utm_source=130611eblast&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=secretspying

You probably saw on the news that a U.S. government agency has been caught secretly spying on the private communications of millions of people like you – through their cell phones,1 and through popular online services like Google, Facebook, and Skype.2

Now, The Globe And Mail is reporting that Canada has its own agency operating in near-total secrecy that appears to be doing the same thing – recklessly collecting and storing our most sensitive private information in giant databases.3

This is important: We need to know what sensitive private data is being collected and stored, and why. Call on the government to tell us the truth about their reckless online spying program immediately.

The key agency collecting our sensitive information is called the Communications Security Establishment Canada (CSEC), which The Globe And Mail describes as an “ultrasecretive Canadian electronic-eavesdropping agency”.4

According to online surveillance expert Ron Deibert, CSEC spying gives them the power to “pinpoint not only who you are, but with whom you meet, with what frequency and duration, and at which locations.”5

Even the government’s own Privacy Commissioner’s Office has ominously stated, “we know very little specific information at this point, but we want to find out more.”6

We need to use this moment—when privacy issues are in the spotlight—to get answers. Tell the government that we deserve to know if our sensitive private information is being collected and stored in giant unsecured databases.

Whether it be pushing back against copyright censorship schemes, Big Telecom’s price-gouging, or threats to our online privacy – we know that when we work together there is nothing we cannot achieve.

Call on the government to stop this secretive spying scheme, and to tell Canadians exactly what’s going on. We deserve to know.

For our future,

Steve and Lindsey, on behalf of your OpenMedia.ca team

P.S. Fighting for our right to privacy has been a long haul, but we’re proud to have Canadians counting on us to keep our ears to the ground, and to keep amplifying your voices when it counts. It would mean a lot to our small team if you could chip what you can now. If you really believe in our work, please consider supporting our ongoing campaigns by making regular contributions as a special OpenMedia.ca Ally.

P.P.S. This is an international issue. OpenMedia is also joining with other groups to call on the U.S. government to stop its spying on the online activity of people around the world, including Canadians. Once you’ve raised your voice in Canada we hope you’ll also join the international campaign.



Footnotes

[1] NSA collecting phone records of millions of Verizon customers daily. Source: The Guardian.

[2] Secret program gives NSA, FBI backdoor access to Apple, Google, Facebook, Microsoft data. Source: The Verge.

[3] The Globe And Mail reports that CSEC has “acknowledged that some Canadian communications are scooped up into this dragnet.” Source: The Globe And Mail.

[4] Privacy watchdog on spy agency’s data collection: ‘We want to find out more’. Source: The Globe And Mail.

[5] Spy agencies have turned our digital lives inside out. We need to watch them. Source: The Globe And Mail.

[6] Supra note 4.
 

DTECanada

New member
Apr 13, 2013
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Isn't "secret spying" redundant?

While I shudder at the ability of governments to spy on people, if Western nations stop doing it the only ones doing any spying would be countries like China and the like. If we demand the government reveal what they are surveilling and how they are doing it, then they may as well not do it at all, leaving only enemies doing the spying.
It's like demanding the government reveal troop levels and movements. I wonder how D-Day would have gone if open government groups demanded to know where the Allies were landing, how many troops and ships were involved in the invasion, and the strategy? Actually there's no need to wonder...but if I did I'd be wondering in German.
I must admit, however, that I'm wondering right now (in English) what is being monitored and how it might be used. I don't believe it is a major issue at this moment as the laws restrict use of the information gathered, but one never knows what the future holds.
 

yung_dood

Banned
Jul 2, 2011
1,698
1
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Isn't "secret spying" redundant?

While I shudder at the ability of governments to spy on people, if Western nations stop doing it the only ones doing any spying would be countries like China and the like. If we demand the government reveal what they are surveilling and how they are doing it, then they may as well not do it at all, leaving only enemies doing the spying.
It's like demanding the government reveal troop levels and movements. I wonder how D-Day would have gone if open government groups demanded to know where the Allies were landing, how many troops and ships were involved in the invasion, and the strategy? Actually there's no need to wonder...but if I did I'd be wondering in German.
I must admit, however, that I'm wondering right now (in English) what is being monitored and how it might be used. I don't believe it is a major issue at this moment as the laws restrict use of the information gathered, but one never knows what the future holds.
Ummm...we have the right to reasonable privacy though...Its under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
The lack of transparency from Harpo and his crew shows they have something to hide if they cannot reveal a good reason for what they've authorized.
 

DTECanada

New member
Apr 13, 2013
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Ummm...we have the right to reasonable privacy though...Its under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
The lack of transparency from Harpo and his crew shows they have something to hide if they cannot reveal a good reason for what they've authorized.
Not really disagreeing with you yung dood, just pointing some things out that might be worthy of thought.
It would be nice if we had honest governments and a non-partisan, yet critical media. Either of those would be a plus. Unfortunately, the media has a political agenda just like politicians do. Anyway, I do appreciate your concerns.
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
53,768
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So Yung Dood do you believe that the "bad guys" whatever you care to term them: Islamic Fundementalists, Taliban, al Qaeda etc. . . will play by the rules of polite people?
 

yung_dood

Banned
Jul 2, 2011
1,698
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Not really disagreeing with you yung dood, just pointing some things out that might be worthy of thought.
It would be nice if we had honest governments and a non-partisan, yet critical media. Either of those would be a plus. Unfortunately, the media has a political agenda just like politicians do. Anyway, I do appreciate your concerns.
All media has its bias, but some are worse than others in terms of influence. Right now, my concerns (along with open media's) are what this spying was about in the first place? Every Canadian should have some questions.
 

fgeorge75

Member
Apr 21, 2006
35
8
8
You're assuming that spying on domestic communications traffic actually helps in combating terrorism. I have yet to see any hard evidence that's the case.

There's a recent podcast that covers a lot of these topics pretty well: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/06/schneier_on_pow.html

I remember a couple of years after 9/11, and then-Attorney General Ashcroft was actually in my home city of Minneapolis giving a speech. And one of the things he said was: It's been 2 years since 9/11 and there haven't been any more terrorist attacks; and that's proof my policies are working. And I was listening to him; and I thought: Well, there were no terrorist attacks in the two years before 9/11, and you didn't have any policies. What does that prove? It proves that terrorist attacks are really, really rare. So, you can't judge rare events on probability of incidence. Because there isn't enough data to plot any meaningful trends.
 

yung_dood

Banned
Jul 2, 2011
1,698
1
0
You're assuming that spying on domestic communications traffic actually helps in combating terrorism. I have yet to see any hard evidence that's the case.

There's a recent podcast that covers a lot of these topics pretty well: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/06/schneier_on_pow.html
If there is reasonable suspicion to eavesdrop on someone then get a damn warrant. Our safety and civil liberties need to both respected, but at the same time I'm not ready to trade freedom for stability.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,291
6,661
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If they are currently ignoring law and having warrant-less wiretaps on Canadians, what exactly is a petition supposed to do?
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
26,680
4,735
113
How do you plan on stopping the government from spying on its people??!

Answer: you can't!

So stop worrying about it
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
30,303
4,497
113
The minute Open Media starting sending me e-mails requesting funds for the Liberal party they lost me. Are they a partisan mouthpiece?
Either way they don't appear to be an independant organization. I would have supported that.
 

larry

Active member
Oct 19, 2002
2,070
4
38
i would never sign a petition like that. just the act of signing gets you on a gov't list. someday/somewhere your name will come up.
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
17,572
8
38
So Yung Dood do you believe that the "bad guys" whatever you care to term them: Islamic Fundementalists, Taliban, al Qaeda etc. . . will play by the rules of polite people?
so fuck why have any laws then?
 

IM469

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2012
11,139
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So Yung Dood do you believe that the "bad guys" whatever you care to term them: Islamic Fundementalists, Taliban, al Qaeda etc. . . will play by the rules of polite people?
I love the irony of this argument. It basically is stating that you will gladly embrace all the same evil traits as terrorists on some misguided notion that the best way to fight terrorism is to become one.

Just to give a little terb type reality check here. The government agencies, just on a whim, will store your e-mails, web activity and with your cell phone data every visit to a SC, MP and SP. They don't set out to get the information but as they scoop all this random personal data - it's available at the whim of a keyboard operator. Your cell phone regularly gives out it's location so that calls can be routed to you. Maybe Harper rides a wave of moralists and decides to wage a war on the johns of SP - you're on a list. Maybe you went in and sat in the same coffee shop as a suspected terrorist - a meeting ? No, but you are on the list.

So there is embarrassing information about you .... who would know ?? - welcome to WikiLeaks.

Now the temptations to use the list for other answers like "Gee, I wonder if Ford's cell phone was ever in a crack house ...?" You either have a free society or you don't. If people want to collect information on your activities - a warrant can be quickly issued. Otherwise sit in your front row seat in the SC and enjoy yourself without being recorded.
 

JohnHenry

Well-known member
Aug 27, 2003
1,329
309
83
rural ontario
My understanding is that only the cell phone billing data is analyzed, not the content of the phone call.
However, as IM469 (duh, I just figured out your handle) has pointed out:
11:05 a call is placed from 416-555-1000 picked up by the tower at Yonge and Davisville to 416-555-1234 (a known hooker) at Yonge and Dundas. Call duration 2 minutes
11:55 a call is placed from 416-555-1000 from Yonge and Dundas to the same 416-555-1234 at Yonge and Dundas. call duration 10 seconds.
12:01 416-555-1234 is disconnected from the network.
12:45 416-555-1234 is re-connected.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
26,680
4,735
113
^^^^ nope, they keep actual recordings of phonecalls also

 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
26,680
4,735
113
Just so you guys know, all phonecalls, all emails, all websites you've visited and pretty much any other activity you've done has been, and forever will be recorded by the government.

This has been going on for ages btw. Even in the 70's. 80's and 90's governments around the world were recording phonecalls of pretty much everyone.

They just can't use whatever information they obtain in court without a warrant. But they definitely use it as a form of "intelligence gathering":

 
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