MGM Grand Toronto
- Thread starter Mr. Lucky
- Start date
I in no way reinforced what you said. You said you couldn't see any reasons to be pro-casino. How about the jobs it will create? I'm not saying a casino is good or bad, I'm just saying your statement was extremely narrow minded.You have pretty much reinforced what I just said?
Is this not more than just a casino they're talking about. A convention centre, hotel, entertainment complex etc. I don't go to casinos but If they want to build one, create construction and full time service industry jobs I'm all for it. They should put it on the CNE grounds, you know the place that people for the most part never visit other than the odd event.
The best comment was from Adam Vaughan. He said Toronto doesn't need more low paying, menial hotel jobs. That's pretty rich coming from a guy who's singing the praises of the two new hotels being built in his ward. What a dick!
The best comment was from Adam Vaughan. He said Toronto doesn't need more low paying, menial hotel jobs. That's pretty rich coming from a guy who's singing the praises of the two new hotels being built in his ward. What a dick!
Jobs? Might as work at a Timmies or McD, because a majority are low-paying.
Traditionally. the city gets screwed by revenue or fuck ups, how is that narrow-minded?
Toronto unionized hotel workers (maids etc.) make $18 an hour, with full benefits, pension and a partially subsidized Metropass.
Toronto isn't in the same league as NYC, London, or Paris. How would a casino "suck the oxygen" out of downtown Toronto? Unless you're suggesting that the opportunities for leisure are so slim that everyone is going to make a beeline for the casino?
Remember the SkyDome?
Canary Wharf (Pan Am Games) will be a nightmare (see Vancouver Olympics) too
It would destroy the surrounding street scape by virtue of its design. If you look at the casinos in Las Vegas, they are all large box like buildings, but also with large space around them and they are designed around the automobile (something Mayor McCheese clearly understands). As a result you get large spaces of nothingness.
If you've even read Jane Jacobs - The Death and Life of Great American Cities, Jacobs argues (and I agree) that the most sucessful cities are those that are founded on tight city blocks with lots of cross streets. Toronto (by fluke perhaps) is a city built to such a plan; and I would argue that Toronto's inner city core is alive and thriving - downtown Toronto is a sought after place to live and hang out in. (This is why the casinos want to locate in downtown Toronto.)
A large casino will require the demolition of a large tract of already densely occupied land in order to open up just the air-space (just look at the first post in this thread). As a result, you have this huge unoccupied air mass which has been proven to be a city destroyer. (One need only look at Harbourfront and what a cold and uninviting place that is where no-one hangs out.) Where do people "hang out" in Toronto? College Street, the Annex, Greektown, King West, Yorkville, the beaches, Queen West. The one thing that they all have in common is a similar "feel" that invites and attacts people. That feel comes from the way that they have been designed and built - tight. A casino will be the exact opposite and no-one will hang out there and it will destroy the area.
Furthermore, a casino with a huge mall inside of it will serve to take away business from the existing merchants who currently line downtown and give Toronto's downtown its "feel". One need only look at the construction of "the Eaton Centre" and how it destroyed the merchants of Yonge Street to see what will happen.
Above is a picture of the Las Vegas strip. Note the large tracts of nothingness between the casinos and how they are built. This is uninviting space and 0 street scape. How many people do you see on the street? People just drive up and down and drive up and down. (Yes, I've been to Vegas and it's a joke frankly.)
Does that answer your question as to how a casino will suck the oxygen out of downtown?
According to the Hotel Association of Canada, MGM is one of the prefered employers which provide good wages and benefits.
Yeah, I thought JTK's comparison to LV was a bit of a stretch. The other thing that makes me laugh is that one half of the anti-casino crowd is saying they don't want it because it will be a traffic nightmare and the other half are saying it will be a white elephant. It can't be both. lol
I have been to Vegas too....and there are tens of thousands of people walking up and down streets, looking at beautiful water fountains, architecture, music..a vibe.
of course, downtown east side has some bad casino areas and run down areas.
we have those too.
But Adam Vaughan would have you believe that Toronto is gonna look like east downtown Vegas..... Scare mongering really.
what is proposed is one high end, well appointed gorgeous facility by the lake with all accompanying amenities. I'm sure it will be clean, well maintained and a joy to go to.
as for problem gambling. It is and has been here for years!
of course, downtown east side has some bad casino areas and run down areas.
we have those too.
But Adam Vaughan would have you believe that Toronto is gonna look like east downtown Vegas..... Scare mongering really.
what is proposed is one high end, well appointed gorgeous facility by the lake with all accompanying amenities. I'm sure it will be clean, well maintained and a joy to go to.
as for problem gambling. It is and has been here for years!
Keep in mind, it is a proposal. Developers and the city have a habit of compromising these proposals due to permits, costs, safety, architecture, environment, etc.
You beat me to it. If you watched the first James Bond movie - you saw a London casino. It has not rotted the city - it is but one of many varied attractions for tourist and business alike. I remember the Casino in London from years ago and it was a classy place. I stayed and loved the experience in St Louis and Puerto Rico (both business trips).
Comparing Toronto to Las Vegas instead of London or other great cities with casinos is puzzling. Las Vegas was built by the mob out of the desert for one reason - gambling. The only source of revenue in Las Vegas is the gambling houses and some of the side businesses that feed off of it. Toronto is different - we have industry, we have a variety of existing entertainment. A casino will not dominate Toronto - it will simply broaden the appeal of the city and compliment the tourist and business attraction.
Many years ago Toronto was correctly known as hog town. Business guys would avoid it like the plague because it virtually closed down Sunday and had some of the most archaic Victorian moral backward laws of any city in North America. Montreal was open, vibrant and felt like you visiting a city in Europe. Slowly Toronto was pushed kicking and screaming into becoming a world class city. It wasn't easy - I remember the doom and gloom when drinking hours were extended, restaurants could serve alcohol on Sundays, the Toronto Indy fight, every time a sign of progress was made to add to the dynamic vitality of the city - it has been fought.
Toronto deserves a casino. It can only add to the appeal of the city. It makes sense financially and logically so let's not let are selves be held back by the timid..
1.) Comparing Vegas to Toronto with casinos is stupid. We're talking about completely different dynamics.
2.) Building a casino is a bad idea. For all the projected image of a casino as a bunch of high rollers with a beautiful woman on each arm, they're about sucking nickels from grandmothers sitting at the slot machines. If Toronto were my home, I'd fight against a casino. Since it's where I go on business every few months, I'll tell the truth: I'll probably wander into it and gamble a bit. It's still a bad idea for the city as a whole, but the important thing to remember is that it's a popular bad idea for the city as a whole. It's bread and circuses. Politicians don't get voted out of office for bringing a casino into town, even when that casino is a leach on the city's economy.
2.) Building a casino is a bad idea. For all the projected image of a casino as a bunch of high rollers with a beautiful woman on each arm, they're about sucking nickels from grandmothers sitting at the slot machines. If Toronto were my home, I'd fight against a casino. Since it's where I go on business every few months, I'll tell the truth: I'll probably wander into it and gamble a bit. It's still a bad idea for the city as a whole, but the important thing to remember is that it's a popular bad idea for the city as a whole. It's bread and circuses. Politicians don't get voted out of office for bringing a casino into town, even when that casino is a leach on the city's economy.
???? For Nuprin
Question for you Nuprin.....as an out of Towner.
When in town, are you downtown? uptown?
If casino was downtown or at Ex would you more likely go than if it was way up at Woodbine?
Question for you Nuprin.....as an out of Towner.
When in town, are you downtown? uptown?
If casino was downtown or at Ex would you more likely go than if it was way up at Woodbine?
