teachers strike?
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You really have got to read more or take a course in critical thinking. Stop blowing all this hot air about S+D when it's already been pointed out its flaws in this case. So basically, you do not value experience. We get it. Nobody else in their right mind would agree with you. This combined with your 'fuji facts', now make your arguments nothing more than fodder.Are you saying that graduates of Ontario teachers colleges are unqualified?
This is nonsense.
The replacement in this case is frequently better quality, as the union system had prevented merit from being a factor in teacher retention.
Experience without merit counts for little.You really have got to read more or take a course in critical thinking. Stop blowing all this hot air about S+D when it's already been pointed out its flaws in this case. So basically, you do not value experience. We get it. Nobody else in their right mind would agree with you. This combined with your 'fuji facts', now make your arguments nothing more than fodder.
There is an over supply. Period.
For the students
I keep on reading here that teachers now have to complete 5 years in university to qualify.
The subjects taught must NOT require a lot of intelligence,...the latest,..."teachers are refusing to write letters of recommendation for high school grads".
These people are really DUMB !!!!
No wonder kids who are currently graduating are unemployable.
UPDATE,...still hearing how teachers are "negotiating" during public school classes.
Should be fired,…but not likely to happen,…untouchable.
FAST
I keep on reading here that teachers now have to complete 5 years in university to qualify.
The subjects taught must NOT require a lot of intelligence,...the latest,..."teachers are refusing to write letters of recommendation for high school grads".
These people are really DUMB !!!!
No wonder kids who are currently graduating are unemployable.
UPDATE,...still hearing how teachers are "negotiating" during public school classes.
Should be fired,…but not likely to happen,…untouchable.
FAST
I could have sworn that the teachers had agreed to a wage freeze last summer, just not all the cuts....and 2) their unwillingness to make some/any concessions when the economy isn't in the best shape. Give a wage freeze for a year or two and this whole thing blows over....
And you people want to hire the UNEMPLOYABLE to replace the current teachers????These people are really DUMB !!!!
No wonder kids who are currently graduating are unemployable
FAST
Talk about reducing the gene pool
The Durham High School Teachers recently negotiated a contract that included a 2 year salary freeze. The Education Minister rejected the contract because the SICK DAY COSTS weren't going to be HIGH enough for her liking - ie the negotiated agreement although better didn't fit her templateThis statement is why you lose credibility with me. Private sector wage increases have been on par with public sector wage increases over the past 4 years.
Yeah, if you work in manufacturing you're in a bad spot, but manufacturing is not reflective of the entire private sector.
The big problem with the public sector unions is: 1) their projected pension costs; and 2) their unwillingness to make some/any concessions when the economy isn't in the best shape. Give a wage freeze for a year or two and this whole thing blows over. But make a stand and face the (often uninformed) public's wrath.
The basic problem is that there are more teachers than there are teaching jobs. We need to find a way to reduce the number of teachers. Generally, in any market where you have an oversupply the solution is straight forward--reduce the price, and some of the suppliers will leave the market.And you people want to hire the UNEMPLOYABLE to replace the current teachers????
Talk about reducing the gene pool
Why train (for example) 3000 teachers annually if there is only going to be say 1000 teaching jobs available? That's 2000 unemployed teachers annually. After 5 yrs. it's 10000. This is currently what's happening. I'm all for post secondary ed. I just think the number of spaces should be relatively in line with the number of job openings. Having a glut of unemployed teachers isn't a healthy situation for anyone. If you think that's stupid then i completely disagree with you.
This is one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time.
You want MORE people to get a higher education, not less. In Canada, a university education is not meant to be for a subset of "elite" students who get the highest grades. Quite the opposite. In Ontario at least, governments have pledged that anyone who wants to go to university will be able to (i.e., if they can't afford it bursaries or scholarships are available).
Restricting the number of university positions by the amount of professors available is as bad as restricting the number of nurses we can churn out in a year. The system will find its own equilibrium.
In this day and age, the last thing Canada needs is to restrict the number of people who can go to university.
You still using this flawed logic? Other than that, what point can you make. Is that the only thing you retained from school? Wikipedia explains that concept (complete with criticisms of its application to the labour market) very well so we get it. No need to continually define it in different ways. If you want to contribute with a sensible argument take into consideration the difference between a 'widget' and a teacher. If you fail to see the difference then your intellect is below the requirement for this type pf discussion.The basic problem is that there are more teachers than there are teaching jobs. We need to find a way to reduce the number of teachers. Generally, in any market where you have an oversupply the solution is straight forward--reduce the price, and some of the suppliers will leave the market.
Just an aside that I think defines the lack of knowledge of most teacher bashers. All teachers must have at least two degrees - their primary designation such as a Bachelor of Arts, Bachelor of Science, etc, etc PLUS a Bachelor of Education degree just to get into a class room. Then a lot of the teachers go on to get an Honours Designation in their subject area(s) through taking summer courses at Universities such as Queens, Toronto, Western which they need before they can teach above Grade 10 level. Add to that a Master of Education degree and/or a Masters Degree in their speciality such as Math, Science, etc. Some even go on and get a PHD. All of the above education beyond the 5 years to get the Bachelor of Education degree is usually done over the summer months when you accuse them of just sitting on their ass getting rich at your expense.Teachers make more than the average professional with a university degree & make more than many with two degrees.
For the students
The people who are dumb,...are the teachers who are threatening students, and then expecting the public to back them up.
The unemployable are being produced by the DUMB teachers and their philosophies.
You mean,...the new crop of teachers will be even worse than the old,…now I’m really worried.
Nice try at “taking out of context“,…but rather transparent !!
FAST
Originally Posted by FAST
I keep on reading here that teachers now have to complete 5 years in university to qualify.
The subjects taught must NOT require a lot of intelligence,...the latest,..."teachers are refusing to write letters of recommendation for high school grads".
These people are really DUMB !!!!
No wonder kids who are currently graduating are unemployable.
UPDATE,...still hearing how teachers are "negotiating" during public school classes.
Should be fired,…but not likely to happen,…untouchable.
FAST
And you people want to hire the UNEMPLOYABLE to replace the current teachers????
Talk about reducing the gene pool
The people who are dumb,...are the teachers who are threatening students, and then expecting the public to back them up.
The unemployable are being produced by the DUMB teachers and their philosophies.
You mean,...the new crop of teachers will be even worse than the old,…now I’m really worried.
Nice try at “taking out of context“,…but rather transparent !!
FAST
Sorry but much as you and Marx may not like it, supply and demand does indeed apply.You still using this flawed logic? Other than that, what point can you make. Is that the only thing you retained from school? Wikipedia explains that concept (complete with criticisms of its application to the labour market) very well so we get it. No need to continually define it in different ways. If you want to contribute with a sensible argument take into consideration the difference between a 'widget' and a teacher. If you fail to see the difference then your intellect is below the requirement for this type pf discussion.
I just ran into an old work colleague at a party tonight. It has been 20-25 years, since we last spokeJust an aside that I think defines the lack of knowledge of most teacher bashers. All teachers must have at least two degrees - their primary designation such as a Bachelor of Arts, Bachelor of Science, etc, etc PLUS a Bachelor of Education degree just to get into a class room. Then a lot of the teachers go on to get an Honours Designation in their subject area(s) through taking summer courses at Universities such as Queens, Toronto, Western which they need before they can teach above Grade 10 level. Add to that a Master of Education degree and/or a Masters Degree in their speciality such as Math, Science, etc. Some even go on and get a PHD. All of the above education beyond the 5 years to get the Bachelor of Education degree is usually done over the summer months when you accuse them of just sitting on their ass getting rich at your expense.
He / she has a BA / MBA and I recall respecting his / her opinion / work ethic way back when
He / she bounced around from company to company and even started a small business .
Approx 15 years ago he / she got into teachers college and became a teacher.
I asked how he / she liked teaching
After laughing he / she responded that "I would not trade this for anything and began to list off the perks
1. You get the whole summer off
2. You put in your three classes a day & do "what ever" of the rest of the time
3. The money is fantastic for what you do
4. Most important of all the there is a complete absence of stress relative to what I experienced in the corp world.
Now I liked this person way back when and did not want to offend, so I was tactful asking about the current situation
He / she laughed , rolled the eyes , shrugged the shoulders and said one word ... union
Later I pressed him / her about the extra curricular / marking / prep time
The response was just as I suspected.
Most teachers get involved in extra curricular activities if they have a personal interest in the activity ie. football, basketball, drama etc.. If there is no interest , well...........
Prep time: ?? After two years of teaching the same subject @ an adolescences level if you do not know the material then there is problem
Marking: If you have your shit together you can have an entire classes test results marked in a couple of hours.
Now as I recall there is maybe three tests per semester & maybe 2 or three assignments per class
So that is a whopping 10-15 hours of marking time per semester per class , yet some here will have us believing they putting in 70 hours each and every week. bullshit
He / she confirmed my argument all along, despite the con job some here are trying to sell, this is the most
overpaid cushy assignments and there is ample room to trim in order to reduce the provinces deficit and the burden on the taxpayer
We will need that $ for Health Care & soon
What annoys me more than anything is Teachers actually think the public is stupid enough to believe their propaganda.
Kind of Ironic since they theoretically educated the public
How? (With specific details)Sorry but much as you and Marx may not like it, supply and demand does indeed apply.
I suspect that if you continue to use Wikipedia as your source for economic theory explanations you might not be getting a full explanation.How? (With specific details)
While the labour market for teachers may not be a "free market" in the short term an "over supply" is quite indicative of the fact that teachers may not be quite the rare and valuable resource that their leaders make them out to be.
The old mythical "i have a friend who said" argument. That is a classic. So one 'person's' (if that person even exists) opinion means everything she's said about the profession is true. How can she speak for tens of thousands of teachers? You only hear what you want to hear.
Let me guess. She flew in on her private jet (funded by taxpayers) and slurped caviar all night. Then she was off to weekend in Monaco.
Let me guess. She flew in on her private jet (funded by taxpayers) and slurped caviar all night. Then she was off to weekend in Monaco.
I just ran into an old work colleague at a party tonight. It has been 20-25 years, since we last spoke
He / she has a BA / MBA and I recall respecting his / her opinion / work ethic way back when
He / she bounced around from company to company and even started a small business .
Approx 15 years ago he / she got into teachers college and became a teacher.
I asked how he / she liked teaching
After laughing he / she responded that "I would not trade this for anything and began to list off the perks
1. You get the whole summer off
2. You put in your three classes a day & do "what ever" of the rest of the time
3. The money is fantastic for what you do
4. Most important of all the there is a complete absence of stress relative to what I experienced in the corp world.
Now I liked this person way back when and did not want to offend, so I was tactful asking about the current situation
He / she laughed , rolled the eyes , shrugged the shoulders and said one word ... union
Later I pressed him / her about the extra curricular / marking / prep time
The response was just as I suspected.
Most teachers get involved in extra curricular activities if they have a personal interest in the activity ie. football, basketball, drama etc.. If there is no interest , well...........
Prep time: ?? After two years of teaching the same subject @ an adolescences level if you do not know the material then there is problem
Marking: If you have your shit together you can have an entire classes test results marked in a couple of hours.
Now as I recall there is maybe three tests per semester & maybe 2 or three assignments per class
So that is a whopping 10-15 hours of marking time per semester per class , yet some here will have us believing they putting in 70 hours each and every week. bullshit
He / she confirmed my argument all along, despite the con job some here are trying to sell, this is the most
overpaid cushy assignments and there is ample room to trim in order to reduce the provinces deficit and the burden on the taxpayer
We will need that $ for Health Care & soon
What annoys me more than anything is Teachers actually think the public is stupid enough to believe their propaganda.
Kind of Ironic since they theoretically educated the public
Secret society
The thing is,...you can't just start asking a lot of pointed questions,...they eventually catch on, (a little child psychology works well) and won't answer or start lying.
FAST
Pretty much EXACTLY what I have learned, talking to different teachers.I just ran into an old work colleague at a party tonight. It has been 20-25 years, since we last spoke
He / she has a BA / MBA and I recall respecting his / her opinion / work ethic way back when
He / she bounced around from company to company and even started a small business .
Approx 15 years ago he / she got into teachers college and became a teacher.
I asked how he / she liked teaching
After laughing he / she responded that "I would not trade this for anything and began to list off the perks
1. You get the whole summer off
2. You put in your three classes a day & do "what ever" of the rest of the time
3. The money is fantastic for what you do
4. Most important of all the there is a complete absence of stress relative to what I experienced in the corp world.
Now I liked this person way back when and did not want to offend, so I was tactful asking about the current situation
He / she laughed , rolled the eyes , shrugged the shoulders and said one word ... union
Later I pressed him / her about the extra curricular / marking / prep time
The response was just as I suspected.
Most teachers get involved in extra curricular activities if they have a personal interest in the activity ie. football, basketball, drama etc.. If there is no interest , well...........
Prep time: ?? After two years of teaching the same subject @ an adolescences level if you do not know the material then there is problem
Marking: If you have your shit together you can have an entire classes test results marked in a couple of hours.
Now as I recall there is maybe three tests per semester & maybe 2 or three assignments per class
So that is a whopping 10-15 hours of marking time per semester per class , yet some here will have us believing they putting in 70 hours each and every week. bullshit
He / she confirmed my argument all along, despite the con job some here are trying to sell, this is the most
overpaid cushy assignments and there is ample room to trim in order to reduce the provinces deficit and the burden on the taxpayer
We will need that $ for Health Care & soon
What annoys me more than anything is Teachers actually think the public is stupid enough to believe their propaganda.
Kind of Ironic since they theoretically educated the public
The thing is,...you can't just start asking a lot of pointed questions,...they eventually catch on, (a little child psychology works well) and won't answer or start lying.
FAST
Because fuji says so.Sorry but much as you and Marx may not like it, supply and demand does indeed apply.
Seriously? You seriously doubt that supply and demand laws apply to labour markets?How? (With specific details)
I can recommend some good text books to you but I am not going to waste time explaining economics 101.
If your debating strategy here is to challenge the law of supply and demand and say that it is wrong then I think we relegate you to the cuckoo nest and conclude the debate.
