Memorial Bicycle Ride for Cyclist killed

[Ms.FemmeFatale]

Not picking on you specifically. This is just our society's mindset. It is always the cyclist's fault. Here is another example. When a woman gets raped, it is always the woman's fault.

I don't believe that is the case at all. So I will politely agree to disagree.

As for the women's fault. I don't believe that either. It is not her fault that she got raped, but being a women, I am not going to irresponsible enough to possibly put myself in a situation where that can happen if I can help it.

What society lacks is accountability for your own personal actions.

 

[GameBoy27]

Our friend Fuji made a valid comment once. Although it sounds counter-intuiative, sometimes following the rules can actually put a cyclist at greater risk. One example is making a left turn.

I know it's difficult for some cyclists, but this is where you have to use a little common sense. I'll explain. Instead of making a left hand turn at a busy intersection, proceed straight through the intersection (with the green light). Once you reach the far side, stop and wait for the light to change then head on your way. Now I understand this may add 30 seconds to your commute. If this bothers you, feel free to run the red in order to save time.

 

[Buick Mackane]

Why is the Critical Mass being used for a memorial ride?
Out of respect it deserves a separate event, not piggybacking on something that occurs each month.

 

[Moraff]

Not picking on you specifically. This is just our society's mindset. It is always the cyclist's fault. Here is another example. When a woman gets raped, it is always the woman's fault.

I can see your point of view, however this is a bad place to take a stand. So far as I can see there has been nothing advanced to say the motorists were at fault in this one. The cyclist ran a red light and paid a horrible price. Certainly the first motorist should not have fled and will have to deal with the consequences of that. But it doesn't appear it made any difference to the cyclist.

Yes cyclists have the same rights as cars but as a cyclist it can be a grave mistake to assume others will give you those rights. Cyclist HAVE to be more careful than motorists. Motorist makes a mistake or assumes others will respect their rights ends up dented. A cyclist in the same position ends up dead.

 

[CapitalGuy]

I can see your point of view, however this is a bad place to take a stand. So far as I can see there has been nothing advanced to say the motorists were at fault in this one. The cyclist ran a red light and paid a horrible price. Certainly the first motorist should not have fled and will have to deal with the consequences of that. But it doesn't appear it made any difference to the cyclist.

Yes cyclists have the same rights as cars but as a cyclist it can be a grave mistake to assume others will give you those rights. Cyclist HAVE to be more careful than motorists. Motorist makes a mistake or assumes others will respect their rights ends up dented. A cyclist in the same position ends up dead.

Like.

 

[Celticman]

I can see your point of view, however this is a bad place to take a stand. So far as I can see there has been nothing advanced to say the motorists were at fault in this one. The cyclist ran a red light and paid a horrible price. Certainly the first motorist should not have fled and will have to deal with the consequences of that. But it doesn't appear it made any difference to the cyclist.

Yes cyclists have the same rights as cars but as a cyclist it can be a grave mistake to assume others will give you those rights. Cyclist HAVE to be more careful than motorists. Motorist makes a mistake or assumes others will respect their rights ends up dented. A cyclist in the same position ends up dead.

First rule of motorbike riding. You will lose all arguments with a car. Even when the car is at fault. Cyclists take note.

 

[Rockslinger]

First rule of motorbike riding. You will lose all arguments with a car. Even when the car is at fault. Cyclists take note.

True, that is the reality on the ground. It is also why in a civilized society the motorists need to assume a greater responsibility to avoid harmless defenseless cyclists, pedestrians and police officers standing on the shoulder of the road.

 

[Celticman]

True, that is the reality on the ground. It is also why in a civilized society the motorists need to assume a greater responsibility to avoid harmless defenseless cyclists, pedestrians and police officers standing on the shoulder of the road.

And in the meanwhile.......................?

 

[Ms.FemmeFatale]

True, that is the reality on the ground. It is also why in a civilized society the motorists need to assume a greater responsibility to avoid harmless defenseless cyclists, pedestrians and police officers standing on the shoulder of the road.

Excuse me????? Why do I have to take on a greater responsibility then other people on the road? That makes no sense. Because my car is bigger then yours, I have greater responsibility???? Really????? If that is the case, then I want more roads for me and less space for those harmless defenseless cyclists, pedestrians and police officers standing on the shoulder of the road that get in my way. I have more of the responsibility then I want more road way.

Look, bottom-line here. We share the road. All of us, so we all have EQUAL responsibility. As a person who drives an SUV, I do not think that I have more responsibility then the guy driving a civic or less then the trucker driving an 18 wheeler.

That was just stupid Rockslinger. Sorry.

And to say that I am not civilized because of it, well whatever - I don't want to be apart of your "civilized society" where people pass the buck off to others instead of taking responsibility for their own actions. Thanks

 

[Submariner]

Even if true, still not an excuse to kill the guy. How fast were the cars going? Were they within the speed limit? Were the drivers impaired? Did they make an attempt to slow down or avoid (or did they speed up)? (I actually slow down going through an intersection and try to avoid hitting people or things.)

Rocky, if you really do slow down at intersections then you are placing all users of the road at greater risk than simply maintianing posted speed and being cognizant of all traffic near the intersection. Perhaps you should also consider the simple premise that if everyone followed that rules of the road that morning at Davenport and Lansdowne, everyone would have remained safe. But I am not sure you are able to grip by the husk the concept that people are responsible for thier own actions; someone else must always be blamed.

 

[Submariner]

First rule of motorbike riding. You will lose all arguments with a car. Even when the car is at fault. Cyclists take note.

Absolutely goddam right.

 

[Submariner]

What about pedestrians?

Just curious why such outcry over cyclists deaths and but no similar outcry about pedestrian deaths? Traffic fatalities according to Toronto police reports from 2007 to 2011 indicate there were nearly 10 times more pedestrian deaths in Toronto (118) than cyclist deaths (12) during that five year period. Every death is tragic, but if 10 times more pedestrians are killed, why not focus the appropriate amount of attention to that bigger issue? Why does the cyclist/car issue spark such heated conversation in comparison?

 

[Ms.FemmeFatale]

Just curious why such outcry over cyclists deaths and but no similar outcry about pedestrian deaths? Traffic fatalities according to Toronto police reports from 2007 to 2011 indicate there were nearly 10 times more pedestrian deaths in Toronto (118) than cyclist deaths (12) during that five year period. Every death is tragic, but if 10 times more pedestrians are killed, why not focus the appropriate amount of attention to that bigger issue? Why does the cyclist/car issue spark such heated conversation in comparison?

Don't even get me started on this one.

In 5 years - 12 count them - 12 cyclists. That is 2-3 a year. Can't do 2.4 deaths in a year.

24 pedestrains. Which is a higher number but no let's think for a moment.

How many cars, people, and cyclists are on the roads daily??????????

when close to 3000 Canadians die a year from car accidents.

People need to give their head a shake. Poor poor cyclists. They are so hard done by.

 

[Rockslinger]

Rocky, if you really do slow down at intersections then you are placing all users of the road at greater risk

622 years ago when I took driver training, we were taught to slightly slow down as we approach and cross an intersection and look in all directions because of all the floatsam and jetsam that are there. Yesterday, I called a reputable driving school and they said that is still how they teach their students to-day.
BTW: As an experiment, I sat at a coffee shop yesterday afternoon and watched cars crossing an intersection for roughly 10-12 minutes. 72.8% of all cars put petal to the metal :Eek:when the traffic light turned yellow/amber, instead of slowing down.

 

[Rockslinger]

Just curious why such outcry over cyclists deaths and but no similar outcry about pedestrian deaths?

I did start a thread about pedestrian deaths (yes, some were killed while on the sidewalk) about 3 years ago. Many members of the Board said that most victims were old and SLOW so better to run them over than wait forever for them to finish crossing the street. TERB is a tough crowd, no mercy.

 

[Mister K]

I agree 100% with rubmeister on this one.

I'd like to see the breakdown on both the pedestrian deaths and the cyclist deaths as respect to fault. Obviously if you're a cyclist and you ignore a traffic signal/sign then you kind of bring it on yourself.

As to pedestrians, there are so many factors from distracted walking (talking on cell phone, texting, music so loud they aren't fully aware of the surroundings - sometimes known as the walking on the train track issue) to weather, time of day, and ignoring traffic signals, crossing streets in the middle etc.

And lest I forget, we drivers are often contributory for no other reason than most of us tend to travel approx 10km over the posted speed limit, thus making it that much harder to react. I notice people speeding on residential streets within subdivisions as if they are on major thoroughfares, without regard that children live and play in these neighbourhoods.

 

[Mister K]

I did start a thread about pedestrian deaths (yes, some were killed while on the sidewalk) about 3 years ago. Many members of the Board said that most victims were old and SLOW so better to run them over than wait forever for them to finish crossing the street. TERB is a tough crowd, no mercy.

Sounds like that was the "time to cull the herd" crowd. :Eek:

 

[GameBoy27]

Because cyclists have a much different attitude than the general public. So when a pedestrian is killed, the reaction is tempered across society by the reality that there is risk in life etc etc.

When a cyclist runs a red light, the cyclists all want to regale each other with their own enhanced stories of how they just barely escaped from yet another asshole car driver. And they want to ascribe malice and intent to motorists. O at the very least, reinforce how superior they are being cyclists and not fat cat smog spouting motorists.

Cars hit each other hundreds of times a day in this city. They hit small cars and they hit tractor trailers. And posts and curbs and all kinds of shit. Including cyclists. They don't hit any of them on purpose. But when a cyclist gets hit, the injuries are more severe than what would have otherwise been a fender bender with no injuries in a car.

Cyclists can wail and cry all they want, but the cold hard reality is that they are putting themselves in a horribly vulnerable situation by riding a bicycle on city streets. So it behooves them to, in their own self-interests, to ride as if their life depends on it. Because it does.

And there is NOTHING they can do to change the attitude of EVERY driver. They can change their own and increase their safety a thousand-fold.

WOW well said... I couldn't agree with you more, and I cycle all over the city. Then again, I rarely have a problem with motorists because I use common sense, don't run stop signs, red lights and pay attention to what's going on around me. I always wear a helmet and of those bright orange reflect vests along with the brightest strobe style front and rear lights at night. As a driver, I know how hard it can be to see a cyclist at times so I don't assume they always see me. I also don't ride with ear phones, no hands, talking or texting. I see idiots doing that all the time.

If you cycle with the attitude "that driver sees me and will avoid a collision" then bad shit is going to happen. It amazes me how often I have to brake or steer to avoid idiot cyclists doing stupid or illegal shit. All it takes is for a driver looking the wrong way for a split second, checking their blind spot, mirrors or simply not paying attention and you're on your ass, injured or dead.

Your last sentence says it all rub!

I sat at a coffee shop yesterday afternoon and watched cars crossing an intersection for roughly 10-12 minutes. 72.8% of all cars put petal to the metal :Eek:when the traffic light turned yellow/amber, instead of slowing down.

You should be a traffic cop.

 

[Submariner]

622 years ago when I took driver training, we were taught to slightly slow down as we approach and cross an intersection and look in all directions because of all the floatsam and jetsam that are there. Yesterday, I called a reputable driving school and they said that is still how they teach their students to-day.
BTW: As an experiment, I sat at a coffee shop yesterday afternoon and watched cars crossing an intersection for roughly 10-12 minutes. 72.8% of all cars put petal to the metal :Eek:when the traffic light turned yellow/amber, instead of slowing down.

Like you, I learned to drive decades ago and my kids are learning to drive today. I have always heard caution advocated at intersections, not slowing down. The only real point that needs to be made is for users of the road to follow the rules. I find it shocking to how many cyclists don't understand that bicycles must follow the highway traffic act the same as other vehicles. Regarding yellow lights, I don't advocate putting the pedal to the metal going through intersections either. I think the countdown-to-yellow indicators encourage racing through intersections since drivers can now see that they may not make the light and then its giddyup.

 

[Submariner]

BTW: As an experiment, I sat at a coffee shop yesterday afternoon and watched cars crossing an intersection for roughly 10-12 minutes. 72.8% of all cars put petal to the metal :Eek:when the traffic light turned yellow/amber, instead of slowing down.

When the warm weather comes around, I suggest you go watch traffic on St. George or Harbord on the UofT campus. Racing a yellow is one thing, blatantly running a red is another. Watch traffic along Harbord at the intersection of Huron. You will see 100% of cars stopped at the red light but about 2/3 of cyclists riding right through the red, many not even slowing down. So some day when a cyclist gets splattered at that intersection, I will mourn the loss but will have zero interest in hearing about "another cyclist murdered".