A 1% tax for transit

[fuji]

Have you seen how much gas is taxed?

Do you know that the province shelled out to build the 427 alone? Officially $1.6 billion but perhaps up to $100 billion when you include the cost of acquiring all the land. Even if the $100 billion is a bit of a stretch, it cost an astronomical amount of money to build the highway systems--the tolls on that road only pay for its upkeep. Gas tax doesn't even begin to cover what is spent on the road infrastructure.

Especially in a place like Toronto, which doesn't get any of the gas tax...

 

[GameBoy27]

Where have I heard this before. Oh yeah, like Premier Dad's health tax that was supposed to go to healthcare but ended up in general coffers. Or tax on gasoline that is supposed to go to roads and transit but gets spent on other things. I wonder how much transit could have been built with the $700 million Dalton wasted to move the power plants to buy one seat?

 

[Curious36]

Do you know that the province shelled out to build the 427 alone? The tolls on that road only pay for its upkeep. Gas tax doesn't even begin to cover what is spent on the road infrastructure.

Especially in a place like Toronto, which doesn't get any of the gas tax...

Increasing any tax in a shrinking economy isnt the most wise move. The days of tax-and-spend are all but over due to economic reality. IMO there are still lots of inefficiencies at various levels that can be curbed/cut back. I dont want divert away from this topic but I (and most others not on the public dime) would most likely not be in favour of seeing our income eroded by further taxation. For a politician the easiest "solution" is to raise a tax.....when are politicians going to wise up and realize that by taking the averages Joe's disposable income away causes the economy to shrink further, due to reduced spending. Its a hot topic.....

 

[The Options Menu]

I wonder how much transit could have been built with the $700 million Dalton wasted to move the power plants to buy one seat?

The stats say 2 subway stops.

And no, the gas tax doesn't pay for the cost of roads-- Everybody subsidies roads, and light vehicles subsidies the heavy vehicles. You can kind of make the argument that this helps reduce the cost of bringing goods to market, BUT that ignores the fact the moving to a rail based hubs with vehicle based nodes would be even better still (and take more road damaging, congestion causing, heavy vehicles off the roads).

 

[shack]

i agree with it if the tax is only put on people that use transit.

More people on transit may make your driving easier.

 

[Jennifer_]

This isn't a case of drivers vs transit users.

WE NEED BETTER TRANSIT

We all benefit through better transit and it's not going to be funded by the private sector.

What's that saying - "be proactive rather than reactive"

it will benefit us all to have a better transit system like it benefits us all to have roadways.


All I need to do is look out my window and look at the condos going up to know that transit is an urgent priority for Toronto and the entire GTA and all GTAers must invest in themselves.

 

[onthebottom]

Is there some reason that gas taxes can't pay for roads and tolls pay for mass transit and let the user decide which is more efficient?

OTB

 

[james t kirk]

Reduce the subsidies already in place. Nothing wrong with paying fair market value for your mode of transportation.

I agree.

By the same token, those with automobiles should be paying full pop for roadway construction and maintenance.

Since 1 fully ladden highway truck does as much damage as 10,000 passenger car passes - the burden should fall to truck drivers.

 

[papasmerf]

I agree.

By the same token, those with automobiles should be paying full pop for roadway construction and maintenance.

Since 1 fully ladden highway truck does as much damage as 10,000 passenger car passes - the burden should fall to truck drivers.

you must not bennifit from anything that moves on the road.

 

[james t kirk]

As to the original question - there is absolutely NO DOUBT that Toronto and the GTA need much better transit than we currently have (or more accurately - we lack).

Toronto desperately needs another north south subway (either Bathurst, or Broadview) or a "Downtown Relief Line" which would run along Queen and then run diagonally to connect to Bloor around Jane in the west and Victoria Park in the East.

GO Transit also needs more regurlarly scheduled trains - especially to Markham

So yes, if it takes an additional tax then I'm all for it. That said, the additional tax must only be to fund the design and construction of transportation infrastructure, not to go to General Revenue, or for "Transportation Related" wants and desires, or for Operations. Strictly to design and build new infrastructure.

 

[james t kirk]

you must not bennifit from anything that moves on the road.

No more than truck drivers bennefit from those who go to work on the subway.

 

[papasmerf]

No more than truck drivers bennefit from those who go to work on the subway.

it's good you raise your own food and cut down your own trees for heat.

 

[james t kirk]

it's good you raise your own food and cut down your own trees for heat.

Your point is taken.

However, my point is also valid.

Good luck growing your food, or cutting down your trees without the roads and bridges to drive them on which are typically conceived of, engineered, and built by the people who live in the city and financed by the banks in the city, and put together by the Government Workers who work out of Queens Park, etc. etc.

No man is an Island.

 

[papasmerf]

Your point is taken.

However, my point is also valid.

Good luck growing your food, or cutting down your trees without the roads and bridges to drive them on which are typically conceived of, engineered, and built by the people who live in the city and financed by the banks in the city, and put together by the Government Workers who work out of Queens Park, etc. etc.

No man is an Island.

and to me a 1% sales tax in the GTA to pay for GTA public transit is fair.

it affects everyone

 

[fuji]

Increasing any tax in a shrinking economy isnt the most wise move.

Congestion on our streets in Toronto costs even more. Failing to deal with major structural issues that are holding back the economy of Toronto is not a wise move.

 

[fuji]

Is there some reason that gas taxes can't pay for roads and tolls pay for mass transit and let the user decide which is more efficient?

The taxes wind up at the wrong level of government.

One solution certainly would be to give the city, which does a lot of road building, a share of the gas tax--but try getting the Federal and Provincial levels to agree to that.

 

[simon482]

- more people on transit =less people on roads
- shorter commute times =more productivity
- more productivity =better economy


... and last time I checked, we all certainly do pay for the costs necessary for drivers to drive whether we drive or not.

i pay a lot for the privaledge of driving, so i don't see any reason why i should pay more. if i used the public transit system i wouldn't expect people that don't use it to pay for it. it is not my problem the canadian gov't doesn't want to give toronto tax dollars to fix their roads. you want to put up toll roads go ahead but there are ways around them and i still say that it would cost the city money in tourism.

the gov't should put the tax dollars collected into the places it was collected from. not my problem they don't.

 

[fuji]

i pay a lot for the privaledge of driving, so i don't see any reason why i should pay more.

I don't see why others should subsidize your driving.

 

[simon482]

I agree.

By the same token, those with automobiles should be paying full pop for roadway construction and maintenance.

Since 1 fully ladden highway truck does as much damage as 10,000 passenger car passes - the burden should fall to truck drivers.

your hatred for truck drivers is boring. last time this came up you claimed trucks caused more accidents than cars, so i got links and numbers to prove you wrong. if trucks stop moving your world falls apart.

here is a question. a car uses say 500$ a month in fuel as a high estimate, my truck uses 500$ a day. who pays more in taxes ?

 

[simon482]

I don't see why others should subsidize your driving.

they shouldn't. the gov't should put money collected from fuel tax into roads. the tax money is being used wrong. taxes collected by an industry should be turned back into that industry.