CRTC slaps Guelph Liberals with fine for breaking robocall rules

[train]

My, my, my.

For those of you who insisted only one party was involved with the use of robo calls that were against the rules.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/crtc-slaps-guelph-liberals-4-900-fine-breaking-153305205.html

Granted it was not a huge rule violation but nevertheless......


BTW haven't had an update from wiggly on the lawsuit against the Guelph riding of the Conservatives brought by that psuedo-citizens group. Guess it didn't go so well....

 

[Moviefan-2]

I saw this news earlier today. This is too funny.

 

[Moviefan-2]

In case it wasn't already obvious, Matt Gurney at the National Post explains what a tremendous gift this news is to the Conservatives:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...epeat-liberals-fined-for-robocalls-in-guelph/

 

[groggy]

Big differences between the parties shown here.

The liberals admit when they've screwed up.
The cons never admit when they've screwed up or worse, committed fraud.

But in the same way that Paul Martin was politically stupid and morally correct when he initiated the adscam inquiry, Harper will never let himself be incriminated, he's too morally bankrupt and politically wily.

 

[Moviefan-2]

But in the same way that Paul Martin was politically stupid and morally correct when he initiated the adscam inquiry, Harper will never let himself be incriminated, he's too morally bankrupt and politically wily.

So you're suggesting Harper is more like Jean Chretien. Interesting.

 

[groggy]

So you're suggesting Harper is more like Jean Chretien. Interesting.

Perhaps as wily, though not as systematically so as Harper.
And Chretien never committed electoral fraud, I suspect that when the dust settles Harper and his cronies will make Mulroney's envelope parties look tame.

 

[Moviefan-2]

And Chretien never committed electoral fraud...

Come again? His government certainly did. The sponsorship scandal involved the misuse of millions of dollars to give the Liberal government an electoral advantage in Quebec.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/gomery-commission-inquiry-sponsorship-scandal#commissions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponsorship_scandal

 

[FAST]

Only

Big differences between the parties shown here.

The liberals admit when they've screwed up.

When they get caught !!!!

FAST

 

[John Galt 2012]

A lib is a lib is alib.

fark'em.

 

[danmand]

A rose by any other name will smell as sweet.

 

[groggy]

Come again? His government certainly did. The sponsorship scandal involved the misuse of millions of dollars to give the Liberal government an electoral advantage in Quebec.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/gomery-commission-inquiry-sponsorship-scandal#commissions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponsorship_scandal

That advertising was not election advertising, it was of the type that Harper himself favours, showing off every dollar spent. Harper, by the way, has broken every record for government advertising spending himself. The in and out scandal was closer to electoral fraud, but was really an accounting fraud used to bypass spending limits by the conservatives, who paid $50k in fines (vs the $million or so they gained) when caught. There has been no investigation into the conservative advertising spending, so who's to say its any cleaner then $50 million of their spending on Gazebo's.

The Gazebo fraud alone makes adscam look petty.

 

[Moviefan-2]

That advertising was not election advertising, it was of the type that Harper himself favours, showing off every dollar spent.

Who said anything about advertising?

I was referring to the Liberals using communications agencies as a front to funnel government money into campaign contributions to the Liberal Party.

And having communications agencies hire Liberals with no ad experience who then spent their time working on the Liberal re-election efforts (but not having their salaries reported to Elections Canada as campaign expenses).

From the Gomery commission's report:

Kickbacks Involving the Liberal Party of Canada

• There existed a complex web of financial transactions among Public Works and Government Services Canada (PWGSC), Crown Corporations, and communication agencies, involving kickbacks and illegal contributions to the Liberal Party of Canada within the Sponsorship Program;
• Five communication agencies that received large sponsorship contracts regularly channeled money, via legitimate donations or unrecorded cash gifts, to political fundraising activities in Quebec, with the expectation of receiving lucrative government contracts; and
• Certain communication agencies also carried on their payrolls individuals who were, in effect, working on Liberal Party matters.

These illegal activities allowed the Liberals to access government money that wasn't available to other parties, and to hire more campaign staff than was available to the other parties that were obeying the law.

 

[groggy]

Who said anything about advertising?

I was referring to the Liberals using communications agencies as a front to funnel government money into campaign contributions to the Liberal Party.

And having communications agencies hire Liberals with no ad experience who then spent their time working on the Liberal re-election efforts (but not having their salaries reported to Elections Canada as campaign expenses).

From the Gomery commission's report:




These illegal activities allowed the Liberals to access government money that wasn't available to other parties, and to hire more campaign staff than was available to the other parties that were obeying the law.

And you think this is different from what the conservatives are doing now?
Care to debate the merit of the recent senate postings?
Care to debate the conservative advertising plans?
Care to talk about Dean del Mastro, Mr tip-of-the-iceberg on conservative plans to thwart election funding rules?
Care to talk about the conservatives habit of hiring failed candidates for PR jobs?
Care to talk about the in and out scandal?

The difference is still that the liberals opened up investigations on themselves while the conservatives do everything in their power to hide their work.

 

[oldjones]

I can't say I see much difference between the sponsorship and the in-out shenanigans: professional pols maxing every buck the public teat provides, even if the law says musn't.

Just to get back to the news story for a sec, am I the only one who sees significance in the CRTC and not Elections Canada being the punishing agency here. As I read it, the offence was the same sorta thing Boris the Mover and countless other telemarketers do—'forgetting' to name the caller and give the number so you can complain.

Perhaps it's only that the CRTC has enforcement powers and EC would have to file Elections Act charges in the Courts, but it didn't read like systematically lying to voters about where to vote, which is the 'robocall scandal' as I understand it.

 

[Moviefan-2]

And you think this is different from what the conservatives are doing now?

Take a deep breath, and go back and read post #5.

I said your description of Harper made him sound like Jean Chretien. It was you, not me, who tried to argue the matters were different.

Perhaps it's only that the CRTC has enforcement powers and EC would have to file Elections Act charges in the Courts, but it didn't read like systematically lying to voters about where to vote, which is the 'robocall scandal' as I understand it.

Indeed. Regardless of what some breathless news reports have said, it's far from clear that there has been any intentional wrongdoing in the robocalls matter.

 

[groggy]

Indeed. Regardless of what some breathless news reports have said, it's far from clear that there has been any intentional wrongdoing in the robocalls matter.

Then why are the conservatives spending so much money and time trying to block the council of canadians charges?
If there was no wrongdoing it would come out in court, but they are working very hard to try to keep it from hitting the courts.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Then why are the conservatives spending so much money and time trying to block the council of canadians charges?
If there was no wrongdoing it would come out in court, but they are working very hard to try to keep it from hitting the courts.

In a free society, people accused of wrongdoing have a right to defend themselves. Even Conservatives.

 

[groggy]

In a free society, people accused of wrongdoing have a right to defend themselves. Even Conservatives.

Ah, so you admit that the only possible culprits could have been the conservatives as well?
200 ridings, access to CIMS, ability to change logs on CIMS.....

 

[oldjones]

In a free society, people accused of wrongdoing have a right to defend themselves. Even Conservatives.

When your defence is to deny impartial adjudication, you only inflame the criticism. When you leave the charges unanswered your innocence is only an assumption, and we all know the usual assumptions about honour in politics.

I'm sure the CPoC lawyers were thoughtful about the safest ground on which to make their stand. No one denies their right to make it.

 

[Moviefan-2]

When your defence is to deny impartial adjudication, you only inflame the criticism. When you leave the charges unanswered your innocence is only an assumption, and we all know the usual assumptions about honour in politics.

I'm sure the CPoC lawyers were thoughtful about the safest ground on which to make their stand. No one denies their right to make it.

Of course, we have to remember that there's no evidence at this point of any wrongdoing by the Conservatives.

While it's possible that some erroneous robocalls were made, it's not at all clear that there were deliberate attempts at deception by either the Liberals or the Conservatives.

All we have right now are a number of breathless news reports (mostly driven by an Ottawa Citizen reporter who used to work for Frank Magazine) and allegations by the Maude Barlow crowd.