More likely that under the Ottomans, some level of peace was kept because of force. Even then, minorities (non-Muslims) had less status. All that England and France did was take away that overseeing power and allowed the groups living there to have aspirations about self rule. One group has done okay with self rule while the other is still upset that their self rule meant that people they don't like also got self rule.
Shooting at Wisconsin Sikh temple - hostages inside
- Thread starter diehard
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Yes the mongols were pretty nice and cultured people.Yet somehow China managed a polyglot empire for just a little while before Europe even decided that different groups could be accepted. The Mongol empire was likely the most religiously tolerant in history - the only thing that mattered to them is that you submitted. The closest Europe came in that time was the Roman empire but to them, any non-Roman was a slave (until they needed extra soldiers).
They did have a view on equality and were far more cultured than their reputation bears. Remember that the negative views were written by the people who lost the battles. Life under the Mongols was harsh but fair. If you submitted, you were allowed freedoms. If you didn't you were destroyed. They did not care about what culture or religion you were and went so far as to encourage religious missionaries to teach them their religions. I believe that one of the Khans just after Genghis even had a (Nestorian) Christian wife.Yes the mongols were pretty nice and cultured people.
Since the dawn of the 21st century I would suggest that there are more Chinese-White inter-marriages (usually Chinese female and male White) than other inter-racial marriages.
wrong the black man and white woman is beyond those numbers...and that's just the ones that tell people about it..lolSince the dawn of the 21st century I would suggest that there are more Chinese-White inter-marriages (usually Chinese female and male White) than other inter-racial marriages.
true, korea is not better, but much more tolerant towards foreginers than the japs....like me!Bull. Japan has always had a vibe that Japanese are superior to others. You might look into Japanese of Korean descent who have been living in Japan for generations and still struggle for full rights.
He said marriages. And generally speaking, black men have a harder time getting with Asian, Indian, Middle eastern chicks.wrong the black man and white woman is beyond those numbers...and that's just the ones that tell people about it..lol
Good on all of them. The sooner we all have beige babies, the sooner we'll have to find something else to hate people for.
Not really true. People who are darker are unsually always looked down upon, even when both are the same race. India and Brazil are pretty well known for this.Good on all of them. The sooner we all have beige babies, the sooner we'll have to find something else to hate people for.
I actually do not believe that at all, and if you think about it, it's hard to imagine how it could be true. We accept immigrants from all kinds of places, and many of those places have really poor track records with racism and human rights. It's absurd to think that people magically change their outlook on the world just because they crossed the Canadian border. We could go looking for stats--it would be interesting, maybe we can find some--but my own personal experience, as I mentioned, is almost universal racism among 1st generation Chinese, and I suspect that is commonplace among immigrants from many places. I simply do not find that level of racism in my dealings with the "majority culture".Unfortunately the majority is just as bad.
I'm not just talking about fear of the unknown, or simple ignorance. I am talking about core beliefs in superiority and inferiority of different races, cultures, and religions. While I'm sure you can say everyone is naturally inclined to think good things about themselves, you find some pretty blatant and jarring racism among first generation immigrants--stuff that I honestly never hear from white Europeans, unless they are wackos associated with extremist stuff like "stormfront".
I am talking about statements like, "black people are just genetically inferior and will never be good at anything" and "the Chinese language is just more logical than others, and this is one reason why Chinese people are naturally smarter than others". These are really core racist beliefs which, I think if you did a little survey of first generation Chinese people, you would find are fairly widely held beliefs.
I do think these are imported values, things that people carry with them from their homelands, and values that are mitigated in their children, and grandchildren, who increasingly absorb the more egalitarian view that we all say Canada actually stands for.
Certainly. I think I wrote that at different times in history different groups have played the savage. For most of history, I agree that China ran a multi-national empire that was far more enlightened than anything you would have found in Europe. They were the first culture to adopt a merit based approach to the civil service, and people of many nationalities and religions rose to prominence in Chinese society, and earlier in Mongol society.Yet somehow China managed a polyglot empire for just a little while before Europe even decided that different groups could be accepted. The Mongol empire was likely the most religiously tolerant in history - the only thing that mattered to them is that you submitted. The closest Europe came in that time was the Roman empire but to them, any non-Roman was a slave (until they needed extra soldiers).
I was writing specifically of the time period from the 17th through 20th century. At that time, I think it's pretty hard to dispute that there were significant advances in our conception of human rights, freedom, justice, equality, etc., and that these advances were driven primarily by European political thought and action, and spread to the rest of the world from there. They represented wrenching change in Europe, where they were new ideas, clearly at odds with the older order, when they arose. The French Revolution was not exactly a peaceful affair, nor did it end well. But it represented a fundamental sea change in the way people saw their relationship to the state, and to one another--the way in which they embraced a new idea, that everyone had political rights. Nothing really was the same after that, not for France, and not anywhere else in Europe either. It has taken hundreds of years to work through the implications of those ideas, to the modern conception, of total equality and universal rights. But it entered mainstream political thinking there, in Europe, and spread from that point.
By no means am I asserting that Europeans have always been leaders in such things--you gave some clear examples of earlier times in history when other cultural groups were more advanced, for their time.
What all of this feeds into is just this: The claim that countries founded on Western European ideas of political and religious freedom are freer, more tolerant, more inclusive societies, and that these ideals permeate the majority cultures of those countries in a way that they do not permeate other countries, or immigrants from other countries.
This is no doubt a temporary thing. It was pretty clear on 22 February 1986 that ideas of fundamental rights and freedom had come to be seen as inalienable to two million Filipinos in Manila. But these ideas originated in Europe, and while they are now being embraced by more and more people, I think it's someone silly to create some sort of fictional history in which everybody became enlightened equally all at the same time.
That's just because you choose to be naive about it.I actually do not believe that at all, and if you think about it, it's hard to imagine how it could be true.....
White Canadians (especially the so called educated) tend to be more subtle about and haven't had to suffer from it.
How is that different from you claiming that Europeans are better because they created a more tolerant culture?"the Chinese language is just more logical than others, and this is one reason why Chinese people are naturally smarter than others"
Of course the values are inherited from where people were raised but that applies to the many whites in Canada who were raised here with similar views. I won't introduce you to my cousins and my step brother who are just as bad (actually I won't because I don't talk to them any more but that's not the point).
So the idea is that since this general acceptance has been so ingrained in many parts of Asia since antiquity, they don't count compared to Europeans who just discovered it recently? It's also farcical to discuss the religious freedoms in many places in the west since the legislation and the actuality are significantly difference. France is a huge example of it where despite being the first Western nation with official equality has always had significant institutional racism....
I was writing specifically of the time period from the 17th through 20th century. ...
Individuality is something that the West has a much greater value on than China but that has nothing to do with tolerance.
Facism is a western product too.Sure, but there's no asian Magna Carta, no asian Declaration of Independence, no asian "A Letter Concerning Toleration", no asian "Communist Manifesto", no asian "On Liberty", no asian "Wealth of Nations", no asian Emancipation Proclamation, no asian Suffragette movement. To the extent that the Chinese started out on a programme of implementing social justice and equality, it was the influence on them of a white guy named Karl Marx. Yes, they reinterpreted and produced their own version--but that idea spread to them from Europe. Democracy arose first in Greece, and then re-emerged in France and Britain. These ideas did not originate in Tokyo, Jakarta, or Kinshasa. "Déclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen" was not written in Dhaka, the French Revolution happened in Paris, not in Seoul. When you even speak about "right wing" and "left wing", you are talking about the seating arrangements in the French National Assembly, not the Alaouite court. When your refer to the concept of a "right", you are under the influence of a British guy named Locke.
Absolutely Europe gets credit for spreading ideas about freedom, rights, and justice to everyone else. To the extent up thread that you were going on about inequality, you were repeating white European ideas first advanced by Karl Marx and John Mills.
Certainly these are contagious ideas, that have spread out to, and been embraced by people everywhere. That was demonstrated quite successfully on a stretch of highway in Asia on February 22nd, 1986 in probably the greatest democratic triumph of the last century. But it's silly to dispute from where these ideas originated. They originated as one of the core traditions of European political thought.
Thank you! An eloquent piece of writing.Unfortunately the majority is just as bad. The only difference are that for many, the only minorities they know are on TV and that being the majority they rarely suffer the negative effects of racism so don't comment on it.
People are naturally afraid of the unknown. Unless they've spent time with other ethnicities, there is a natural distrust. For minorities, compound this with the personal experience of being victims of racism.
I am so tired of people pointing fingers suggesting race X is inferior or suggesting that race Y is superior. Similarly replace the word race with culture.
Assholes and idiots come in all shapes and colours and to pretend otherwise is stupid.
after all our discussions on statistics you are going to introduce a small and biased sample. Biased in the sense that how chinese and whites behave around you is influenced by your race.I actually do not believe that at all, and if you think about it, it's hard to imagine how it could be true. We accept immigrants from all kinds of places, and many of those places have really poor track records with racism and human rights. It's absurd to think that people magically change their outlook on the world just because they crossed the Canadian border. We could go looking for stats--it would be interesting, maybe we can find some--but my own personal experience, as I mentioned, is almost universal racism among 1st generation Chinese, and I suspect that is commonplace among immigrants from many places. I simply do not find that level of racism in my dealings with the "majority culture".
I'm not just talking about fear of the unknown, or simple ignorance. I am talking about core beliefs in superiority and inferiority of different races, cultures, and religions. While I'm sure you can say everyone is naturally inclined to think good things about themselves, you find some pretty blatant and jarring racism among first generation immigrants--stuff that I honestly never hear from white Europeans, unless they are wackos associated with extremist stuff like "stormfront".
I am talking about statements like, "black people are just genetically inferior and will never be good at anything" and "the Chinese language is just more logical than others, and this is one reason why Chinese people are naturally smarter than others". These are really core racist beliefs which, I think if you did a little survey of first generation Chinese people, you would find are fairly widely held beliefs.
I do think these are imported values, things that people carry with them from their homelands, and values that are mitigated in their children, and grandchildren, who increasingly absorb the more egalitarian view that we all say Canada actually stands for.
You being chinese, I doubt a white guy would start dishing the dirt with regards to how he feels about foreigners. Some would but most won't.
He never said he was Chinese, he just spoke the language. Fuji is most likely a Jew who converted to Islam, judging from his posts.after all our discussions on statistics you are going to introduce a small and biased sample. Biased in the sense that how chinese and whites behave around you is influenced by your race.
You being chinese, I doubt a white guy would start dishing the dirt with regards to how he feels about foreigners. Some would but most won't.
Maybe they are leaving because they don't believe in those racist views or human rights violations.I actually do not believe that at all, and if you think about it, it's hard to imagine how it could be true. We accept immigrants from all kinds of places, and many of those places have really poor track records with racism and human rights. It's absurd to think that people magically change their outlook on the world just because they crossed the Canadian border.
You are also confusing law with culture. Yes the law says we have certain rights in this country. But in day to day life I think people behave and think quite differently. Are you telling me that all the people who have lost jobs due to outsourcing don't harbour even a little bit of a racist view? You telling me that when taxes go up that white tax payers don't think about the immigrants leaching off the system? I'm not saying all people feel that way but come on you know these comments have been made. I'm not making them up and you know you've heard them too.
Lefthanders scare me.the sooner we'll have to find something else to hate people for.
Maybe. I just doubt that he hears that much racist talk on Mandarin. I know the difference in sound of mandarin to cantonese and cantonese is faaaar more commonly heard. In fact when I hear mandarin it's a bit of a surprise. This is due to a large amount of Chinese immigrants from Hong Kong who speak Cantonese more frequently. Things are changing but Cantonese is the more common dialiect you will hear in Chinatown, Markham, Richmond Hill etc.He never said he was Chinese, he just spoke the language. Fuji is most likely a Jew who converted to Islam, judging from his posts.
So if he's not asian and just overhearing Mandarin. I'm calling it an even smaller sample size.
I thought he was suggesting these were things said to him and not overheard. Which is why I assumed that he was asian.
