Shooting at Wisconsin Sikh temple - hostages inside

[fuji]

In my own direct experience, I have hardly ever met a first generation Chinese person who is not deeply racist, and I say that as a mandarin speaker. I can't speak as much for others. With the whites I have met, certainly, I have met some racists, but what I run into far more often are people who act weird around other races for fear of being offensive. In other words, people who take political correctness so far that it becomes awkward. I wouldn't call that racism, in fact, it's like an over-reaction out of a desire not to be racist.

Whereas first generation Chinese people will just say openly racist things against blacks, Jews, indians, pretty much any other minority group, and think that it's just common sense to say that sort of thing, and look at you funny if you tell them it's not appropriate.

 

[Carling]

In my own direct experience, I have hardly ever met a first generation Chinese person who is not deeply racist, and I say that as a mandarin speaker. I can't speak as much for others. With the whites I have met, certainly, I have met some racists, but what I run into far more often are people who act weird around other races for fear of being offensive. In other words, people who take political correctness so far that it becomes awkward. I wouldn't call that racism, in fact, it's like an over-reaction out of a desire not to be racist.

Whereas first generation Chinese people will just say openly racist things against blacks, Jews, indians, pretty much any other minority group, and think that it's just common sense to say that sort of thing, and look at you funny if you tell them it's not appropriate.

so now the chinese are your target?...please when will the hate stop?..lol

 

[fuji]

so now the chinese are your target?...please when will the hate stop?..lol

On the contrary, I love China, and have deep connections to Chinese culture. But I am not going to spout off bullshit in the name of political correctness. I am simply describing the world as I see it. I don't buy into this notion that we should pretend everyone is the same when they are not the same.

It is a reality that Canada needs to deal with: Minority groups mostly harbour deeply racist ideas, that they brought with them from their home countries, or which originate from having communities that are too insular. It's something we need to deal with as a society. Helping immigrants acclimitize to Canada at least in part has to include countering the racist ideas they bring with them from their country of origin.

Most places in the world have not championed equality the way Canada and other similar nations have, it's just a fact.

 

[frankcastle]

Sorry, but how does it make me a racist to point out, correctly, that most shooters in Toronto are black? Observing reality isn't racist.

Actually you do come off as racist.

IF you are the enlightened white that you would like to think you are..... with all your talk of "inventing" equality you spend a lot of time pointing out differences (be it percieved or real).

Furthermore, you make many comments with no real foundation or proof (e.g. blacks and asians are more racist than whites).

You also pick and choose your points for your convieniance in highlighting the greatness of euro culture. For example, highlighting the pros of western culture without discussing any of the cons (e.g. the superficial fascination with celebrity, materialism, the self absorbed me generation, the useless generation of 30 year olds living at home, the coddling of these so called "children" etc these are just off the top of my head so maybe there are better examples)

And it sounds like you are suggesting that non western countries are largely savages or at least more savage than western.

The three bolded things you do on a regular basis with regards to the topic of race. So yeah, I think you are racist.

I'm probably racist and don't mind admitting it. I think all people carry some racist thoughts some just aren't willing to admit it (you)

 

[fuji]

If you think European culture is particularly fascinated with celebrity and materialism, all I can say is you haven't had much exposure to Asian culture.

 

[frankcastle]

In my own direct experience, I have hardly ever met a first generation Chinese person who is not deeply racist, and I say that as a mandarin speaker. I can't speak as much for others. With the whites I have met, certainly, I have met some racists, but what I run into far more often are people who act weird around other races for fear of being offensive. In other words, people who take political correctness so far that it becomes awkward. I wouldn't call that racism, in fact, it's like an over-reaction out of a desire not to be racist.

Whereas first generation Chinese people will just say openly racist things against blacks, Jews, indians, pretty much any other minority group, and think that it's just common sense to say that sort of thing, and look at you funny if you tell them it's not appropriate.

Did it ever occur to you that this is a biased sample? If you speak mandarin and are probably chinese then they probably speak more freely in front of you than a white person would.

Just like how locker room talk is not how men speak in front of women they are trying to impress.

Furthermore, you are taking your experiences and expanding it to not only Chinese but all asians and blacks.

 

[frankcastle]

If you think European culture is particularly fascinated with celebrity and materialism, all I can say is you haven't had much exposure to Asian culture.

I never suggested thse things didn't happen in other cultures.

If you are going to regale us with the greatness of white culture then it's only fair that others can add points about flaws in western culture.

 

[fuji]

And it sounds like you are suggesting that non western countries are largely savages or at least more savage than western.

In the present day it's much less so, because other cultures have absorbed a lot of European culture. Certainly it would have been largely true from the 18th through 20th century. Prior to that it's likely the Europeans who looked like savages when held up against the Arabs or the Chinese, and since that time some of the ideas from the European englightenment has spread out to other cultures. In 600 BC, say, we were all savages when held up against Cyrus the Great. So the answer depends on, what period of time do you look at?

If you look at recent history it's just a historical reality that the enlightenment and the industrial revolution happened in Europe, and spread from there. No point in denying that.

 

[frankcastle]

In the present day it's much less so, because other cultures have absorbed a lot of European culture. Certainly it would have been largely true from the 18th through 20th century. Prior to that it's likely the Europeans who looked like savages when held up against the Arabs or the Chinese, and since that time some of the ideas from the European englightenment has spread out to other cultures. In 600 BC, say, we were all savages when held up against Cyrus the Great. So the answer depends on, what period of time do you look at?

If you look at recent history it's just a historical reality that the enlightenment and the industrial revolution happened in Europe, and spread from there. No point in denying that.

Those things didn't happen in a vaccuum. Don't think whites can take all the credit just because the industrial revolution took place in the west. Science, technology, math, philosophy and thinking in general is continuum where people build on previous ideas. It's insulting to think that the whites get all the credit for what you believe to be the final product.

Just htink about all the travellers/explorers that brought back things from asia that changed things.

 

[Carling]

In the present day it's much less so, because other cultures have absorbed a lot of European culture. Certainly it would have been largely true from the 18th through 20th century. Prior to that it's likely the Europeans who looked like savages when held up against the Arabs or the Chinese, and since that time some of the ideas from the European englightenment has spread out to other cultures. In 600 BC, say, we were all savages when held up against Cyrus the Great. So the answer depends on, what period of time do you look at?

If you look at recent history it's just a historical reality that the enlightenment and the industrial revolution happened in Europe, and spread from there. No point in denying that.

So what caused Paletstine to become a relatively peaceful country into the hell hole it is now?.....couldn't be those enlightened Europeans fault right? Or who went to CHina and tried to opiate the populace? or rape Africa of it's gold and resources? Who tried to enslave natives of S. AMerica and N.AMerica?........oh wait, it's the blacks and chinese...those savages.

 

[frankcastle]

So what caused Paletstine to become a relatively peaceful country into the hell hole it is now?.....couldn't be those enlightened Europeans fault right? Or who went to CHina and tried to opiate the populace? or rape Africa of it's gold and resources? Who tried to enslave natives of S. AMerica and N.AMerica?........oh wait, it's the blacks and chinese...those savages.

Fuji will argue that those things didn't occur in the present day.

So I'd update it with..... keeping poor countries in debt, taking advantage of cheap labour yet charging a premium, wide scale destruction of the environment despite knowing it's long term implications, picking and choosing conflicts based on benefits yet calling it in the name of freedom and democracy.

But I maintain humans are savages. Unlike fuji who thinks whites are less savage.

 

[fuji]

Those things didn't happen in a vaccuum. Don't think whites can take all the credit just because the industrial revolution took place in the west. Science, technology, math, philosophy and thinking in general is continuum where people build on previous ideas. It's insulting to think that the whites get all the credit for what you believe to be the final product.

Just htink about all the travellers/explorers that brought back things from asia that changed things.

Sure, but there's no asian Magna Carta, no asian Declaration of Independence, no asian "A Letter Concerning Toleration", no asian "Communist Manifesto", no asian "On Liberty", no asian "Wealth of Nations", no asian Emancipation Proclamation, no asian Suffragette movement. To the extent that the Chinese started out on a programme of implementing social justice and equality, it was the influence on them of a white guy named Karl Marx. Yes, they reinterpreted and produced their own version--but that idea spread to them from Europe. Democracy arose first in Greece, and then re-emerged in France and Britain. These ideas did not originate in Tokyo, Jakarta, or Kinshasa. "Déclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen" was not written in Dhaka, the French Revolution happened in Paris, not in Seoul. When you even speak about "right wing" and "left wing", you are talking about the seating arrangements in the French National Assembly, not the Alaouite court. When your refer to the concept of a "right", you are under the influence of a British guy named Locke.

Absolutely Europe gets credit for spreading ideas about freedom, rights, and justice to everyone else. To the extent up thread that you were going on about inequality, you were repeating white European ideas first advanced by Karl Marx and John Mills.

Certainly these are contagious ideas, that have spread out to, and been embraced by people everywhere. That was demonstrated quite successfully on a stretch of highway in Asia on February 22nd, 1986 in probably the greatest democratic triumph of the last century. But it's silly to dispute from where these ideas originated. They originated as one of the core traditions of European political thought.

 

[fuji]

So what caused Paletstine to become a relatively peaceful country into the hell hole it is now?

Religious intolerance by Arabs, I'd say. Their refusal to accept even the idea of a Jewish state has prevented them from developing and kept them in a constant state of war. Savagery at its worst, to be brutally honest.

 

[Carling]

Religious intolerance by Arabs, I'd say. Their refusal to accept even the idea of a Jewish state has prevented them from developing and kept them in a constant state of war. Savagery at its worst, to be brutally honest.

or was it the influx of european jews who moved there, and in the end trying to cultivate their culture, also ended up causing conflict with their neighbours...or white jews as i call them..lol

 

[fuji]

or was it the influx of european jews who moved there, and in the end trying to cultivate their culture, also ended up causing conflict with their neighbours...or white jews as i call them..lol

A large share of Israel's Jewish population has always lived in the region. About a million of the original Jewish citizens of Israel were "Arab Jews", genetically indistinguishable from other Arabs, who had always lived in the Arabian peninsula. The number of refugees flowing each way across the Israel/Palestine border was roughly equal--about the same number of Jews fled Arab countries to Israel, as Palestinians fled Israel for Arab countries. In any case, whatever you think of the events of the 1940's, from that point forward what has prevented the Palestinians from developing is their constant war with Israel, and in Jordan/Syria/Lebanon, the conditions of Apartheid they are subjected to by those governments. They have collectively put all their energy into the project of hate, and it has absolutely had a devastating effect on their economy and way of life.

 

[basketcase]

Well to be fair, diversity has its own downsides. There is a reason Japanese people and Koreans dont want black people or muslims, etc. They observe what is happening in the US and Europe in terms of racial, religious tensions.

Bull. Japan has always had a vibe that Japanese are superior to others. You might look into Japanese of Korean descent who have been living in Japan for generations and still struggle for full rights.

 

[basketcase]

Speaking of Sikhs, the Brits really had their hands full stopping the Sikhs, Hindus and Muslims from all killing each other. Partition was a bloodbath.

I don't recall the Brits making much of an effort.

 

[fuji]

Bull. Japan has always had a vibe that Japanese are superior to others. You might look into Japanese of Korean descent who have been living in Japan for generations and still struggle for full rights.

Or even just the minority Japanese nationalities, like the Ainu or Ryukyuan people.

 

[basketcase]

...Minority groups mostly harbour deeply racist ideas, ....

Unfortunately the majority is just as bad. The only difference are that for many, the only minorities they know are on TV and that being the majority they rarely suffer the negative effects of racism so don't comment on it.

People are naturally afraid of the unknown. Unless they've spent time with other ethnicities, there is a natural distrust. For minorities, compound this with the personal experience of being victims of racism.

 

[basketcase]

Sure, but there's no asian Magna Carta, no asian Declaration of Independence, no asian "A Letter Concerning Toleration", no asian "Communist Manifesto", no asian "On Liberty", no asian "Wealth of Nations", no asian Emancipation Proclamation, no asian Suffragette movement. ...

Yet somehow China managed a polyglot empire for just a little while before Europe even decided that different groups could be accepted. The Mongol empire was likely the most religiously tolerant in history - the only thing that mattered to them is that you submitted. The closest Europe came in that time was the Roman empire but to them, any non-Roman was a slave (until they needed extra soldiers).