NDP wants restaurant, bar owners banned from staff tips

[Toke]

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...-restaurant-bar-owners-banned-from-staff-tips

Likely gonna start another firestorm as this will surely get off topic, but here goes... and yes, I am in the industry.

I rarely read the Politics section here, but was browsing through and found the above thread a few weeks ago. Continued to look up news articles regarding this potentially-to-be-proposed bill.

Here is one of the articles I read as it highlighted one aspect of `owners dipping into tips`, as an owner argues that since she must pay credit/debit fees the servers should pay a portion.

http://www.therecord.com/news/local...osed-tip-out-ban-gets-mixed-reviews-in-region

Here are a couple of other articles which present the argument:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/0...-not-go-to-restaurant-owners-dalton-mcguinty/
http://updatednews.ca/2012/06/12/ontario-ndp-wants-restaurant-owners-to-keep-hands-off-tips/

So I thought I`d put it to a poll here to see what others think about restaurant owners and/or management taking a cut out of the tip pool.

My personal opinion is that owners and slaried staff should not draw from the tip pool. The very reason that waitstaff (not bussers, bartenders, cooks, hosts, or any other restaurant position) are legally paid below minimum wage, is because of gratuities. However, I am fully in favour of support staff (listed above) should recieve a portion through tip-out as they are not paid very well in some cases (the term `host` often includes many positions that are paid quite well) or are underpaid (line-cooks).

I`m hoping (but not confident) that this will not be a discussion that questions the practice of tipping, but focuses on whether owners/management should be tipped. So please read the above and keep comments on topic.

One last thing that I`d like to point out is that this practice ismuch more widepread than the UpdatedNews article presents and is often a percentage that is tied to sales rather than actual tips recieved (i.e. the server must pay the percentage whether or not they recieve a tip - it`s fixed).

 

[Jake2525]

Management should not be getting a share of the tips. That being said, tipping as a practice should be eliminated completely and all staff should be paid a decent salary by the employer. Just ask Mr. Pink.

 

[LKD]

Management should not be getting a share of the tips. That being said, tipping as a practice should be eliminated completely and all staff should be paid a decent salary by the employer. Just ask Mr. Pink.

what about customers who really want to tip then?

 

[Toke]

what about customers who really want to tip then?

That would be fine if they wanted to. But do they?

 

[frankcastle]

Yeah I can understand sharing tips with hostess, bartender or cook but even then it's not expected.

When I tip I assume it's only going to the waitress.

 

[Toke]

Yeah I can understand sharing tips with hostess, bartender or cook but even then it's not expected.

When I tip I assume it's only going to the waitress.

Oh ya, I definitely have no problem tipping the support staff as their work enhances my job (hopefully): bussers provide occasional 'helping hands' when busy, hosts ensure customers are sat in an orderly fashion, and to a much lesser extent the line-cooks only because many restaurants use young and trained cooks (e.g. Humber grads) and pay them very little and even use illegal practices regarding thier hours (e.g. making them work many hours unpaid). But I don't think salaried management and owners should. It has been happening for many years but becoming much more widespread over the past 5-7 years.

 

[Buick Mackane]

WTF!!!

I tip because the waitress has nice tits, some of it ends up in some greasy little busboy's pocket?

 

[Sandra Baxter]

Patrons tips to service have subsidized the owners for years from paying them a decent wage out of their pocket. Now the greedy bastards want a piece of it now too?

Fucking union restaurant owners.

 

[msog87]

the govt thinks they are doing waiters and waitresses a favour, but this means less revenue for the owner which means alot of restaurants are gonna be forced to cut staff. you run a restaurant to make a profit not to run a charity. the govt is so hypocritical they don;t mind stealing money from taxpayers. owners should receive a cut they are allowing their employees to make money in their restaurant

 

[Toke]

Toke ... I've been in food and bev service for years. In answer to your question ... yes people really want to tip.

A server can make or break your dining experience. I've mainly worked fine dining so I know how important it is when someone is paying top dollar for their meal and wine that their server also be of top quality.

A server who greets your warmly, remembers your order, and all your specific modifications, one who refills your water (and remembers you don't like ice for example) one who doesn't break the cork and knows how to properly decant and serve your wine, one who treats your guests like they are his/her guests, one who makes your children feel comfortable, and brings them some crayons, one who is friendly without being familiar... you know what I'm talking about if you have ever had one. I am happy to tip up to 25% when I get an experience like that. These people earn every goddam penny.

Support staff such as bus-people, hosts, dishwashers, line cooks, usually get a tip out and its well deserved. Their support is crucial for a successful service and their wages are too low. My son is apprenticing to be a chef and he's well underpaid for his level of skill and value as an employee.

Funny ... I almost made as much in tips when I was serving fine dining as I do working as an indy SP ... but now I have a fraction of the stress, no long hours, no scheduling difficulties and catty personalities. And no owners stealing my farking tips.... lol.

I read that you are in the industry .. may I ask what position?

I think you need to read up in order to know what you are responding to; post #6 was in response to post #3. BTW, waiter.

 

[Toke]

Funny that there are no responses from the two (at this point) who think managers and owners should be tipped.

Probably opened the flood-gates with this comment...

 

[Toke]

I was responding to post #4 .. and I think we agree .. don't we? lol

We appear to agree, I just thought that you thought I didn't.

 

[Dmac1701x]

Management should not be getting a share of the tips. That being said, tipping as a practice should be eliminated completely and all staff should be paid a decent salary by the employer. Just ask Mr. Pink.

Screw Mr. Pink. In my experience, nothing destroys the effectiveness of a restaurant as a business more than a house tip out. Show me a place with a house tip out and I'll show you a place with poor staff morale. Generally, you do not want to frequent a place that is not functioning well as a team.

Here is an evil twist from my place of employment: generally (or always in the case of an automatic gratuity) one receives a tip based on the bill before tax - I pay a 2.5% tip out on my sales after tax.

And Jesus, if I didn't have to tip out the house I could get an extra SP session a week. :-(

 

[Toke]

Screw Mr. Pink. In my experience, nothing destroys the effectiveness of a restaurant as a business more than a house tip out. Show me a place with a house tip out and I'll show you a place with poor staff morale. Generally, you do not want to frequent a place that is not functioning well as a team.

Here is an evil twist from my place of employment: generally (or always in the case of an automatic gratuity) one receives a tip based on the bill before tax - I pay a 2.5% tip out on my sales after tax.

And Jesus, if I didn't have to tip out the house I could get an extra SP session a week. :-(

I know a well-known chain that does this... They serve a ton of beef.

 

[JackBurton]

Aside fom the owners taking part of the tips. I think the bigger issue is making the wait staff pay tax on their tips. I've known several bartenders who make big coin in Toronto. Much more than honest, hardworking folks who PAY their taxes, who never claim any of the cash.

I don't much care for tax cheats, if I have to pay taxes then I have no sympathy for those who don't. It's not that hard to serve food or drinks. Not as hard as menial labour jobs where workers pay honestly.

 

[legmann]

Neither should. Gratuities are there to supplement the shitty wage being paid.

 

[dreamblade]

Aside fom the owners taking part of the tips. I think the bigger issue is making the wait staff pay tax on their tips. I've known several bartenders who make big coin in Toronto. Much more than honest, hardworking folks who PAY their taxes, who never claim any of the cash.

Um, tips are taxed, have been since the mid-90's. You know that, right? Furthermore, yes, some serving staff make amazing money, but that's because they're amazing at their jobs.

It's not that hard to serve food or drinks. Not as hard as menial labour jobs where workers pay honestly.

Spoken like someone who has never done it. I tried, and did not do well. You have to be fast, be observant, be strong, be endurant, all the while being charming and polite. It's a combination of skill and talent that gets you those tips, because your base pay is so far below minimum wage. And btw, I've done other "menial labour jobs": painting, carpentry, warehouse, computer/network installation. Those jobs pay more as a base, have better labour laws protecting them, and are, most commonly, unionised as to assure a very decent wage.

 

[GlavaMan]

I think the owners should be entitled to the CC percentage they have to pay out on tips but not any of the tips themselves.

 

[Anynym]

I voted against the owners and managers getting a cut, but my true position is somewhat more nuanced and in favour of transparency: I believe that the House Tipping Policy should be clearly spelled out on the menu (or on a separate page handed out with the menu, if the menu is, say, on a chalk board or is only a "daily specials" page).

if the Owner / Manager is going to get a "cut" they will likely find that they need to explain why (e.g. to cover credit card processing charges for the portion the wait staff receive). Then let the market decide.

 

[Toke]

I think the owners should be entitled to the CC percentage they have to pay out on tips but not any of the tips themselves.

Perhaps, but they often take that percentage to 'cover costs' and often take more to make a profit.

For Terbites that think othewise, if you are interested: ask the manager to break down the tip-pool and let me know what/how they answer. I'd be interested to hear the responses.