Just thought I'd share this with you all, here's a CL ad in which the lady offers bare back everything, including greek, for $300/hr, in addition to offering CFS. It's not just guys asking for bareback, some ladies are offering it. I'm not saying one sex over the other is encouraging BB, there are idiots in both sexes.
To all the guys that request BBFS from an SP.
- Thread starter CUTTERBUCK
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You can count me in this group. Yes there are always risks in this hobby, but I for one chose to minimize them wherever possible and it hasn't lessened my enjoyment. You want to screen SPs? Stick to the tried and true and stay off CL.
Ditto, however, I would note that many of the lovelies in TERB also advertise on CL
How "dangerous" an activity is re HIV & other STI`s depends on many factors.
It might be of interest to consider the relative risks re HIV, such as in the following example which uses an estimated HIV infection rate of 5 in 10,000 ( from Wikipedia) , i.e. 1 in 2000, for an uninfected male having vaginal sex witha HIV positive female. Also assumed is a 10% figure for the liklihood a randomly chosen lady or FSW (female sex worker) is infected with HIV.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV#Transmission
"If we take Degan`s number of 1/2000, and use 10% infection in the target group (and that is probably too large, but we`ll go with it) , we arrive at 13, 862. 6 sexual encounters to have a 50% probability of infection. That`s a different partner every single day for about 38 years, and then it is only even money you are infected."
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/327875-the-hiv-scam/page__st__75
(ref posts 87, 89, 96)
The estimated rate of HIV in FSW in Thailand was listed as 2.79% in the following study, but it is likely much less amongst non drug addicted SP`s in Canada.
http://www.unaids.org/en/dataanalys.../thailand_2010_country_progress_report_en.pdf
Using that percentage of 2.79% the above quote would change to say:
"If we take Degan`s number of 1/2000, and use 2.79% infection in the target group, we arrive at 49600 sexual encounters to have a slightly less than 50% probability of infection. That`s a different partner every single day for about 137 years, and then it is only even money you are infected."
Change that to BBFS once every other day and there is a 95% chance of not being HIV infected in 20 years. It would be 90% after 40 years & 86% for 60 years, a lifetime of being sexually active. After 200 years it would be only a 40% chance of getting HIV, but who lives that long.
Consistent condom use (CFS) that reduced the HIV risk relative to BBFS by 95% would give you a 99.37% chance of not being infected with HIV, having CFS with SP`s thrice weekly for 60 years, with a transmission rateof 1 in 2000 and a SP infected rate of 2.79%. For BBFS it would be 88%, 94.5% if circumcised.
As you can see, based on these figures alone, there is only a few percentage points separating BBFS and CFS. So they would indicate, apart from a consideration of other factors, that there is not a great amount of difference in risk between the two, during a lifetime of sex, except for the usual sensation factor absent in sex with a plastic baggie.
But how reliable are these figures, assuming the math has no mistakes? There is more to the story that would support the case that the difference between CFS & BBFS is wider than what these stats would imply, as detailed below.
Moreover, BTW, even a few percentage points difference, (though not of much significance betwen two individuals, one using a condom & one not), will have a huge impact in the big picture of hundreds of millions of people, in terms of HIV and other infections, which is what `the powers that be` concern themselves with. So those practicing BBFS should do it safely, such as in a monogamous relationship, or with other safe sex practices, as mentioned here:
https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...-sex-article&p=1252316&viewfull=1#post1252316
The 1 in 2000 Wikipedia estimated rate of HIV transmission could vary depending on a number of factors. Factors that could make the HIV transmission rate higher (or more likely) are vaginal sores, STIs, high viral load, "dry sex", sex during menses (female-to-male transmission) & bleeding during sexual intercourse. Factors that could make the transmission rate lower are the absence of those problems, male circumcision, use of commercial lubrication, less friction, HIV immunity, and HIV ARV meds minimizing the viral load.
The "presence of other STDS or vaginal/cervical abrasions increases the risk of transmission. Obviously, women with a large number of sexual partners are more likely to have these than women without. Abrasions etc are virtually an occupational hazard of sex work."
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/327875-the-hiv-scam/page__st__75
Hence the importance of those engaging in BBFS to see that a SP has recently tested negative for STDs, especially HIV (using both 1. antibody and 2. NAT &/or p24 antigen tests).
An old (1994) study of sex workers in Thailand estimated the HIV transmission rate there was 1 in 100. It has been implied that may have been due to such things as an absence of male circumcision & the presence of STDs which increase the liklihood of HIV transmission. Some research has questioned the validity of the Thai study.
"The sharply increased infectivity reported among female sex workers` clients in an Asian setting may reflect differences by disease stage, as the infectivity study (33) conducted in Asia took place at the start of the epidemic when a large proportion of index cases were in early stages of infection (33, 34). The elevated infectivity in the Asian study also may reflect unmeasured STI co-factor effects, as a large proportion of sex worker index cases were infected with STIs during the study period (67)."
http://journals.lww.com/jaids/Fullt..._of_Heterosexual_Transmission_of_HIV_.10.aspx
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7904668
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2744983/
A number of studies came up with estimates of 1 in 1000. A later (2008) report analyzed previous research on this topic & warned that the 1 in 1000 figure may be too high. Yet a recent (2010) study of couples found 1 infection per 2200 (5 in 11,000) acts of BBFS with those known to be HIV positive. No infections resulted from 7000 thousand BBFS encounters with HIV infected individuals on ARV drugs.
"Our findings suggest that in many contexts – particularly in the absence of male circumcision or in the presence of STIs, anal sex, or early or late infection – the heterosexual infectivity of HIV-1 may exceed the commonly cited value of 0·001 (1 in 1000) by more than an order of magnitude."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20472675
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2744983/
As to the percentage of HIV infected SP`s i think it likely that those SP`s who engage in BBFS often are probably going to have a higher rate of HIV & STD infections than SP`s in general. So the general rate of an estimated 2.79% of infected FSW in Thailand is probably higher amongst those who offer BBFS than those who refuse this service. Consequently the above calculations based on 2.79% for BBFS are inaccurate and should be recalculated at a higher percentage.
Amongst those engaging in BBFS with SP`s, a lower (vs higher) millage SP would probably be safer. As would a first world vs third world SP. An SP who allows anal sex, even with a condom, is also high risk relative to those who don`t, since even covered Greek appears to be about as risky as BBFS.
Conclusion: Sex with or without condoms, especially BBFS, may not as safe for individuals as certain stats may imply, hence additional safety practices are recommended for personal safety as well as for your partner & the community as a whole.
I realize it is old, though not so old as when HIV was still considered a death sentence.
As for those who care, how about those interested in safe sex, the truth, facts, etc
Wikipedia? Did you only read the first few lines?
I agree, that type of lady (that advertizes BBFS) should be avoided. OTOH:
"Other conditions for SP`s or clients engaging in BBFS with each other are suggested, such as can be included in a monogamous sex relationship, or an open marriage, in which one can seldom know with 100% assurance the other partner is being faithful. For example the understanding that neither will engage in BBFS with anyone else, regular STI testing & sharing the same with each other, etc. Other conditions could also make it safer for all involved, like circumcision, no covered Greek, etc. I think with a little care as to such safe sex practices &/or having a proper read on your partner, BBFS in this business can be as safe as CFS without the same practices.
"I`m sure there are FSWs out there who enjoy BBFS as much as males do & who generally cover it up, but with the one right guy they are, or would be, up for it. Call it SBBFS monogamy, if you like.
Discussion - Lost another Regular to BBFS... WTF!
https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?166295-Discussion-Lost-another-Regular-to-BBFS-WTF!/page6
Bareback {no condom** sex article
https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...-sex-article&p=1252316&viewfull=1#post1252316
"Other conditions for SP`s or clients engaging in BBFS with each other are suggested, such as can be included in a monogamous sex relationship, or an open marriage, in which one can seldom know with 100% assurance the other partner is being faithful. For example the understanding that neither will engage in BBFS with anyone else, regular STI testing & sharing the same with each other, etc. Other conditions could also make it safer for all involved, like circumcision, no covered Greek, etc. I think with a little care as to such safe sex practices &/or having a proper read on your partner, BBFS in this business can be as safe as CFS without the same practices.
"I`m sure there are FSWs out there who enjoy BBFS as much as males do & who generally cover it up, but with the one right guy they are, or would be, up for it. Call it SBBFS monogamy, if you like.
Discussion - Lost another Regular to BBFS... WTF!
https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?166295-Discussion-Lost-another-Regular-to-BBFS-WTF!/page6
Bareback {no condom** sex article
https://perb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...-sex-article&p=1252316&viewfull=1#post1252316
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