Agree or Disagree
- Thread starter cye
- Start date
Considering how silent the voices of Palestinians are in western media, I understand how you can say this.There has been absolutely no indication that there is a Palestinian movement that has any any chance of bringing about change while showing any consideration for democratic values .
However, when you read of days like this, you understand there is a large movement underfoot that is trying to bring about change without violence only to be shot at.
http://rabble.ca/news/2012/04/israel-opens-fire-global-march-jerusalem
Iran could easily have the right if they chose to withdraw from the NPT (and don't forget India and Pakistan, the other two non-signatory nuclear powers). Israel on the other hand has had nuclear weapons since the 1960's without issue..... But if you believe Israel has the right to acquire nuclear weapons while Iran, or any other country in the region for that matter, does not, you must have a twisted sense of logic indeed....
As for 'brutalizing', Israeli Arabs seem to have a high level of democratic rights and representation. The Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza aren't Israelis and don't want to be Israelis but there is no one the Israelis can trust to govern peacefully. They intentionally did not annex it in 1967 since they knew it should have been a Palestinian state except for Jordanians in 1948.
Considering how silent the voices of Palestinians are in western media, I understand how you can say this.
However, when you read of days like this, you understand there is a large movement underfoot that is trying to bring about change without violence only to be shot at.
http://rabble.ca/news/2012/04/israel-opens-fire-global-march-jerusalem
Unfortunately the movement is still way underground and those in power are a wonderful mix of corruption and disposition to violence as a solution.
Actually that's not true. Hamas has gone over almost totally to non-violent protests now. Its only a few fringe groups in Gaza that are responding to Israel's aggression with aggression.Unfortunately the movement is still way underground and those in power are a wonderful mix of corruption and disposition to violence as a solution.
More horse shit. Israel is a democracy whether you like it or not. You are letting your hate cloud you're judgment. Palestinian citizens of Israel have the same rights as Jewish citizens do.Dealmaker said:This is a country that brutalizes Palestinians and subjects them to daily indignities. This is a country that sticks its fingers in the eys of the world by continuing to build illegal settlements. To call Israel a democracy is to damn the word.
The security measures around Gaza are a direct and necessary response to violent attacks from there, and could be removed if Gaza stopped doing that. Would you like a list of rocket attacks on Israel?
I would rather no country had them, but if someone had to have them I'm much more comfortable with it being a stable democracy than a repugnant dictatorship.But if you believe Israel has the right to acquire nuclear weapons while Iran, or any other country in the region for that matter, does not, you must have a twisted sense of logic indeed.
That you won't admit there is a difference says a lot about you. Again, it's your hate overriding your common sense.
Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism. The fear is they would provide nuclear weapons to terror groups, if they thought they could do so without anybody being able to prove that Iran was the source.Are they going to be stupid enough to use them against Israel knowing very well that they in turn would be wiped out?
The Palestinians brought on their own destruction through their relentless and stupid wars. Had they chosen peace they would long ago have created a prosperous Palestinian state. Instead they choose perpetual war and they live the result of that.groggy said:I'd say its the opposite.
You seem to be arguing that Israel should continue its violent and spiteful destruction of Palestine at the hands of a theocratic Jewish state, while most others hope that a one state solution with equal rights for all can be accomplished through the new non-violent movement coming out of Gaza and the West Bank.
You are the equivalent of Col Shalom Eisner randomly hitting non-violent protesters in the face with their gun.
I guess those are non violent rockets that are fired almost daily from Gaza.groggy said:Actually that's not true. Hamas has gone over almost totally to non-violent protests now. Its only a few fringe groups in Gaza that are responding to Israel's aggression with aggression.
Thanks for conceding. It's pretty clear you don't have any civilized way to counter my points. It may well be that you can convince yourself of your lies if you put those who retort with facts on ignore but we both know you aren't convincing anyone else.Dealmaker said:Basically you are an asshole with IQ of a rat. I have put you on my ignore list. Please do the same.
To be clear you are throwing this tantrum because you don't like admitting that Israel is a democracy.
Fine.
On my part, I found the article something I agree with in general but since it is very lacking in specifics, I withhold my opinion (which wasn't an option)More posts than voters indicates very narrow interest in the subject.
But unfortunately for you, that asshole rat is correct on this occasion.Basically you are an asshole with IQ of a rat. I have put you on my ignore list. Please do the same.
The gander is a state sponsor of terrorism, and the goose is a stable democracy. If you can't see the difference you aren't being honest. The basis is clear. You may want to debate the basis, whether that's the right way to look at it or not, but denying it, as dealmaker tried--and as you appear to be--is a non starter. That's what elicited words like "horse shit", how else to confront someone who is trying to deny plain facts? Whether you like it or not, whether he likes it or not, it's a fact that Israel is a democracy, and that Iran is anything but one.On what basis? That Israel can have nuclear weapons to the silence of the west but Iran cannot? If not good for the gander, it shouldnt be good for the goose either.
Because they have had nukes for the last 45 years without issue and are not a part of the NPT. In fact most sources believe that Israel has had nukes since before the NPT and would therefore be titled an existing nuclear power (same as the US, Russia, China, UK, etc.) even if they had signed it.On what basis? That Israel can have nuclear weapons to the silence of the west but Iran cannot? If not good for the gander, it shouldnt be good for the goose either. Period. I mean Israel's nuclear weapons are not even acknowledged let alone anyone doing anything to get rid of them. To me this is mind boggling.
And I believe issues should be debated on their merits. Using terms like "horse shit" and "hate" and reciprocating with "asshole" label is wrong.
Iran on the other hand is seemingly flaunting the NPT which they signed to proliferate nuclear weapons which we all agree is bad.
Does the sun rise in the East?Poorly worded poll.....
I agree with Krugman here (and I almost never do, he's the smartest guy who's always wrong).
Israel is digging it's own grave, it's isolated itself to support from the US government and US Jewish funding, it's fighting peasants with tanks, it's building walls (no image issue there), it's going to lose the demographics battle at some point 20-30 years from now... and yet it plays for time when time is the last thing Israel has.
It will be interesting to see if the Jewish lobby hit's him hard on this....
OTB
Anyone who dares criticize Israel or any aspect of the Jewish religion is instantly labeled an anti-semite. It's a given.
I've not seen a lot of criticism on this.... I could have missed it, have you?Does the sun rise in the East?
Anyone who dares criticize Israel or any aspect of the Jewish religion is instantly labeled an anti-semite. It's a given.
Your post right here is in the same league. So let's look at facts. Israel is a democracy. Iran is not.Does the sun rise in the East?
Anyone who dares criticize Israel or any aspect of the Jewish religion is instantly labeled an anti-semite. It's a given.
Now a value judgement: Democracy, better or worse than dictatorship?
Maybe you want to choose dictatorship. Maybe you want to say that they're equal. I, and most people, and most Western nations, choose to support democracies over dictatorships.
Moreover, on the issue of democracy, attacks on Israel often take the form of attacks on democracy. Those who seek to criticize Israel and its actions are generally forced to launch attacks on the concept of democracy in various forms. The legitimacy of the Israeli state, its policies, its courts, the rights and freedoms it provides it citizens--are all challenged by people who attempt to argue that these things are on equal footing with Iran, Syria, Jordan, or Saudi Arabia.
Ho hum.Your post right here is in the same league. So let's look at facts. Israel is a democracy. Iran is not.
.
andTel Aviv mayor: Jewish law would turn Israel into Iran
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4221677,00.htmlA state based on Jewish law is a religious state; it's Iran," he said.
I see you're still hating, Groggy. Israel is a democracy. Period.
Iran is a brutal dictatorship, one of the nastiest the world has seen. Period.
But go ahead, discredit yourself some more. Keep on lying. Post some more bullshit about Israel and Iran being somehow equal.
Iran is a brutal dictatorship, one of the nastiest the world has seen. Period.
But go ahead, discredit yourself some more. Keep on lying. Post some more bullshit about Israel and Iran being somehow equal.
