Chickengate

Anbarandy

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Apr 27, 2006
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Tornto Star Thursday April 19, 2012

Daniel DaleUrban Affairs Reporter


She was herself eating KFC: “I got a four-piece chicken, gravy and french fries, and I enjoyed every bit of it.” She was also feeding KFC to her 2-year-old.

So why did she film Mayor Rob Ford on Tuesday evening as he approached the same KFC she had just exited, laugh uproariously, and email the video to the Star?

“I know teaching my child to eat french fries at KFC — that’s not fine. But you know what? I didn’t commit to a weight loss challenge. He did,” said the woman, a 29-year-old child-care worker named Cordella, who declined to give her last name.

“The reason why I did it was: I’m a voter. You’re promoting something within the city, you stand behind what you’re promoting. Show some dedication. If you’re not committed to the diet that you committed to — nobody forced you to go on a diet and tell everybody — how can you be committed to the taxpayers of Toronto and making changes in Toronto?

“Rob Ford needs every bit of encouragement. And maybe this will be a bit of encouragement.”

The video, and the Star’s decision to publish it online Wednesday, generated an emotional response, most of it negative. On Twitter, residents and pundits of all political persuasions expressed sympathy for Ford and displeasure with the newspaper.

“Last week I had a bad day and got Wendy’s for lunch. From the drive thru. Glad no one pointed and laughed at me,” wrote Matt Elliott, a city hall blogger for Torstar Corp.-owned Metro who is generally critical of Ford.

In an interview, dietitian Mary Bamford said, “Rob was probably running from meeting to meeting, skipped a meal by accident, was hungry, that smelled good to him, and there he was. Maybe he picked off the skin and just ate the meat on the inside. Did anyone film that? The poor guy. The problem is, random people with video cameras don’t have the whole picture. Like anything in politics — we always have just one little glimpse.”

Councillor Doug Ford, the other participant in the “Cut the Waist Challenge,” said the video and article were unfair — and that Rob Ford might have been buying the food for his children.

“He’s down 20 pounds, or 18, and then the big bully, you guys, come on and start kicking sand in his face at the beach,” he said.

But he also said Cordella’s laughter was unsurprising: “The guy’s on a diet, he’s going to KFC.” And he poked fun at his younger brother even as he defended him.

“The guy’s trying his hardest — well, maybe not his hardest, but he’s trying,” he said. The mayor, he said, would keep making progress toward his goal of a 50-pound reduction by mid-June.

“Even if Rob hits 30 pounds, that’s huge. He’s (down) what, 18 pounds? He’ll make it. If I’ve got to get a piece of duct tape and stick it across his mouth, and put a little hole in there for a straw…”

The video flap highlighted the unusual scrutiny the Fords’ eating habits have faced from eagle-eyed passersby since they began holding weekly public weigh-ins at City Hall in January. Doug Ford said someone once called a television station to report that he had taken two candies from a candy dish at a Bay St. office.

The weight loss campaign, and even Rob Ford’s highly publicized struggles, appear to have succeeded in humanizing him to some voters who are otherwise opposed to him. Fairly or unfairly, it also carries reputational risk. In a column headlined “Silly weight challenge pounds mayor’s image,” Sun columnist Peter Worthington, a Ford supporter, said the mayor’s difficulty shedding pounds after pledging to do so makes him “look weak.”

Upon launching the campaign in January, Doug Ford said he and his brother had chosen to make their quest public in part because public pressure would help them reach their goals. “When you tell 3 million people that you’re gonna lose weight, you sure better lose weight,” he said, laughing.

Rob Ford lost 22 pounds in about a month, but he has faltered in recent weeks, gaining four pounds from his February low of 308 pounds and cancelling two weigh-ins without explanation at the last minute. He wants to weigh 280 pounds by mid-June.

Worthington, whose publication also posted the video Wednesday, along with other news outlets, said Rob Ford should drop the campaign. Doug Ford said both of them will see it to its end.

Cordella, meanwhile, offered some unsolicited advice to the mayor for the next time he is craving fast food.

“Send somebody else to pick it up for you. Send somebody else. Being in the public eye, you should already know that somebody’s gonna catch you,” she said


The jig is up Rob. Cut the "Cut The Waist Campaign" afterall it really was just a futile public relations 'reality show' to try to humanize the inhuman(that's you btw).

I mean it is very apparent what you are.

PS > Even a small BUT genuine recogniton of the Gay Pride festivities would pay dividends for yourself and your image. It would demonstrate some humanity which you have sorely lacked to display.
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
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Come on, Cordella has a "hate-on" for Mayor Ford and decided even though she was feeding her young child KFC French Fries it would be a real "gotcha" to whip out that cell phone.

And the hypocritical political statement about "he promised," please before I hurl!
 

omegaphallic

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2010
3,006
48
48
This,is just fucking stupid, I don't care that Rob ford is fat, I care he's rightwing and incompetetant. Everytime those of us that don't like him take a cheap shot at his weight we remove the legitimancy from our genuine grievences. Its mean and it cruel and I hate it. He's trying to lose weight and yes he stumbled, OMG the mayor's human, most people on a diet do, but you pick yourself up and keep trying and we should be giving him our full support and well wishes in his attempt to lose weight. Just because Ford acts like a douche bag some times, don't make the fat attacks okay.

Attack his tax plan, his transit plan, his waterfront plan, his budget plans, don't go after his diet plans it just cheapens us all on the left.
 

Polaris

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Oct 11, 2007
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Matt Gurney: The Star’s story on Ford visiting KFC has the taste of mockery masquerading as news

Matt Gurney Apr 19, 2012 – 12:13 AM ET | Last Updated: Apr 19, 2012 12:30 AM ET

When is a fast-food meal news?

Tuesday, Mayor Rob Ford was filmed entering a KFC restaurant. Someone can be heard reminding him that he is supposed to be on a diet. This was the source of much merriment to those filming, who had a good laugh at the mayor’s expense before posting the video online.

The Toronto Star, for some inexplicable reason, then chose to turn the video of the Mayor being laughed at into a news story. It posted the video to its website and gussied it up with a few hundred words commenting on the video’s content and recapping the mayor’s attempt to lose 50 lbs. by June.

The coverage put some effort into appearing to be news reporting of an event. But — no pun intended — there wasn’t a lot of meat on the bones. That it was essentially a bunch of people laughing at a fat guy eating something unhealthy didn’t seem to occur to the Star’s editors — the story occupied the main place on the paper’s website for several hours on Wednesday afternoon.

There is no love lost between the Star and the mayor. His administration has frozen the Star out of even basic access to press releases and schedules, due to a dispute between the mayor and the Star dating back to coverage during the election campaign that Ford considered unfair. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn’t. Doesn’t matter. Ford is still the mayor of all Toronto, and the Star shouldn’t be denied access to public information just because the mayor’s feelings were hurt.
‘There is no love lost between the Star and the mayor’

But that doesn’t mean the Star should lower itself to pretending that a film of random citizens laughing at the mayor’s struggles with weight is in the public interest. It isn’t.

Besides, the mayor and his brother have regularly participated in public weigh-ins since launching their weight-loss campaign. If the Star really thinks the mayor’s weight is newsworthy — something the mayor himself has admittedly opened himself up to — that’s the newspaper’s chance to make it the story. Does it really think the public needs more of this?

Not every item posted on a newspaper’s website needs to be hard news or serious commentary. Journalists have a sense of humour, too. Sometimes we like to indulge them. But discretion is rarely more called for than when getting a bit silly. And this entire incident had the unseemly taste of public mockery masquerading as news.

Which is ironic. Had the video been of a fat child being laughed at by classmates, the Star would have been the first to launch an outraged series about the incident. And one can only imagine the righteous anger it would direct at those who would share that video online.

National Post

----------------------------------------

One comment from me. I remember a Chinese saying about American politics, which appears to be applicable here.

The Conservatives are bad, but the Liberals are the worst.

:p
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
11,255
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This,is just fucking stupid, I don't care that Rob ford is fat, I care he's rightwing and incompetetant. Everytime those of us that don't like him take a cheap shot at his weight we remove the legitimancy from our genuine grievences. Its mean and it cruel and I hate it. He's trying to lose weight and yes he stumbled, OMG the mayor's human, most people on a diet do, but you pick yourself up and keep trying and we should be giving him our full support and well wishes in his attempt to lose weight. Just because Ford acts like a douche bag some times, don't make the fat attacks okay.

Attack his tax plan, his transit plan, his waterfront plan, his budget plans, don't go after his diet plans it just cheapens us all on the left.
He is a terrible mayor. He is the worst kind of mayor that Toronto could have ever had. He is also a FAT mayor.

The one thing that he could display that MAY be a start, albeit a small start, to intiate a refurbishing of his public image is to diplay a wee bit of vulnerablity and thus as it's consequence, humanity.

He sorely lacks this basic human trait.

Mel Lastman started as foolish, incompetent and uncompromising. But, after he displayed his vulnerablity and thus humanity he actually ended up being likeable. Ford should heed Mel's lesson.

In the meantime, if this Ford-i-morphisis ever occurs, his vile personality, his lack of compassion and humanity and everything else that is so despicable about him(and yes his FAT, FAT self) is absolutely fair game.

No quarter for this FAT sack of inhumanity.
 

Asterix

Sr. Member
Aug 6, 2002
10,025
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0
He is a terrible mayor. He is the worst kind of mayor that Toronto could have ever had. He is also a FAT mayor.

The one thing that he could display that MAY be a start, albeit a small start, to intiate a refurbishing of his public image is to diplay a wee bit of vulnerablity and thus as it's consequence, humanity.

He sorely lacks this basic human trait.

Mel Lastman started as foolish, incompetent and uncompromising. But, after he displayed his vulnerablity and thus humanity he actually ended up being likeable. Ford should heed Mel's lesson.

In the meantime, if this Ford-i-morphisis ever occurs, his vile personality, his lack of compassion and humanity and everything else that is so despicable about him(and yes his FAT, FAT self) is absolutely fair game.

No quarter for this FAT sack of inhumanity.
Have you considered counseling? This replaces the jag you used to carry on about Iraq. Anbarandy. Yeah, we get it. Anbar province in Iraq. You need to find a girlfriend, or a hobby, or an escort. Perfect place here to find one.
 

Polaris

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2007
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LOL!

There's already over 800 comments on this article at the Globe&Mail website. Trying finding this piece in the Toronto Star website. I tried, came up empty.

Double LOL!


Mayor Ford’s approval rating up: poll

Kim Mackrael
Globe and Mail Update
Published Friday, Apr. 20, 2012 10:17AM EDT
Last updated Friday, Apr. 20, 2012 10:43AM EDT

Toronto Mayor Rob Ford’s approval rating is at its highest point since last June, a new poll by Forum Research Inc. has found.

The automated telephone poll of Toronto residents found that 47 per cent of those surveyed approve of the mayor’s work, up from 41 per cent last month, and an analysis of the numbers by Forum Research suggests that Mr. Ford would be the likely winner in a three-way race if an election were held today.

That’s good news for a mayor who has looked increasingly isolated at City Hall in recent months, following a string of setbacks on his transit agenda and a marked slip in his influence on council.

“He’s kind of on the comeback trail,” said Lorne Bozinoff, president of Forum Research.

Mr. Bozinoff said that the mayor’s difficulties with council could actually help him in the next election, since they will allow Mr. Ford to present himself as an underdog to voters and lay blame on an intransigent council for stifling his reform plans.

The poll suggests Toronto residents support several notable aspects on Mr. Ford’s agenda, including his push for subways over light rail transit and his desire to privatize cleaning services at municipal buildings.

On transit, about 60 per cent of those polled said they favour a subway-based transit plan to light rail, with higher levels of support for subways outside of the downtown core.

“He’s going to have a lot of issues I think he can run on [in an election],” Mr. Bozinoff said. “Saying, ‘Look, I want to build the subway, I wanted more outsourcing, I want to get rid of the land transfer tax... and I couldn’t because of council.’ That’s ideal to run on.”

Mr. Bozinoff said the heightened approval numbers likely reflect several big wins by Mr. Ford during recent months, including his success at winning labour peace this spring after a series of hardball negotiations with city workers.

And the mayor’s decision to again shun the city’s Pride Parade is unlikely to come at a significant political cost, the poll suggests. Although 44 per cent of those surveyed believe Mr. Ford should attend the event, another 25 per cent said he shouldn’t and 29 per cent said the choice should be his.

The automated telephone poll survey of 812 adult Toronto residents was conducted on April 18 and is considered accurate within plus or minus 3.4 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...fords-approval-rating-up-poll/article2408791/
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
11,255
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Have you considered counseling? This replaces the jag you used to carry on about Iraq. Anbarandy. Yeah, we get it. Anbar province in Iraq. You need to find a girlfriend, or a hobby, or an escort. Perfect place here to find one.
Thanks for your support Mr. Ampersand. Nearing 10,000 posts would seem to have suggested intense, team-focused and lifelong psychiatric/pharmacological intervention at the university psychiatric department laboratory level(you know leading edge, pushing the boundaries, experimental), should have been the treatment plan recommended for you at oh, say post number 5000.

Where do you turn to now that you have almost reached 10,000 posts?

Oh yeah, and forgive me for despising this justifiably despisable ogre who wants to delete my job and who is the enemy of the 'little guy'.
 

Asterix

Sr. Member
Aug 6, 2002
10,025
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0
Thanks for your support Mr. Ampersand. Nearing 10,000 posts would seem to have suggested intense, team-focused and lifelong psychiatric/pharmacological intervention at the university psychiatric department laboratory level(you know leading edge, pushing the boundaries, experimental), should have been the treatment plan recommended for you at oh, say post number 5000.

Where do you turn to now that you have almost reached 10,000 posts?

Oh yeah, and forgive me for despising this justifiably despisable ogre who wants to delete my job and who is the enemy of the 'little guy'.
Goodness, you do take yourself seriously, don't you? Once again I seem to have struck a nerve. I post and contribute to what little I have because it amuses me. You seem to post because you're obsessed. I'll leave it up to the doctors to decide which one of us is in more need of care.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
11,255
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Goodness, you do take yourself seriously, don't you? Once again I seem to have struck a nerve. I post and contribute to what little I have because it amuses me. You seem to post because you're obsessed. I'll leave it up to the doctors to decide which one of us is in more need of care.
C'mon amp, no need to get defensive about some mutual 'good natured banter' and 'busting your balls'.

Remember, 3 posts a day, day after day, for ten years will keep the psychiatrists away.
 

Asterix

Sr. Member
Aug 6, 2002
10,025
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0
C'mon amp, no need to get defensive about some mutual 'good natured banter' and 'busting your balls'.

Remember, 3 posts a day, day after day, for ten years will keep the psychiatrists away.
Well you know, it's funny. If I ever needed a psychiatrist it would likelier be from some of the stuff I have read here then anything else. But you carry on, I know you can't help yourself.
 

blackrock13

Banned
Jun 6, 2009
40,084
1
0
Thanks for your support Mr. Ampersand. Nearing 10,000 posts would seem to have suggested intense, team-focused and lifelong psychiatric/pharmacological intervention at the university psychiatric department laboratory level(you know leading edge, pushing the boundaries, experimental), should have been the treatment plan recommended for you at oh, say post number 5000.

Where do you turn to now that you have almost reached 10,000 posts?

Oh yeah, and forgive me for despising this justifiably despisable ogre who wants to delete my job and who is the enemy of the 'little guy'.
Now it becomes clear, not that we didn't suspect it. You're one of those folks that so many on here think are lazy, overpaid, unnecessary city workers and this cascade of Ford rants is your drug of choice on here.

Worse mayor ever? I'm not sure how old you are, but I don't think you've live through many of the 60+ that Toronto has had. it would appear you follow the opinion of the US pundit Keith Oberman, another student of the hyperbole, who feels the same only more so, 'worst person in the world'. I suspect Allan Lamport would give him a run for his money to name one. McBride and Saunders should receive honourable mention as well. Who?
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
11,255
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LOL!

There's already over 800 comments on this article at the Globe&Mail website. Trying finding this piece in the Toronto Star website. I tried, came up empty.

Double LOL!


Mayor Ford’s approval rating up: poll

Kim Mackrael
Globe and Mail Update
Published Friday, Apr. 20, 2012 10:17AM EDT
Last updated Friday, Apr. 20, 2012 10:43AM EDT

Toronto Mayor Rob Ford’s approval rating is at its highest point since last June, a new poll by Forum Research Inc. has found.

The automated telephone poll of Toronto residents found that 47 per cent of those surveyed approve of the mayor’s work, up from 41 per cent last month, and an analysis of the numbers by Forum Research suggests that Mr. Ford would be the likely winner in a three-way race if an election were held today.

That’s good news for a mayor who has looked increasingly isolated at City Hall in recent months, following a string of setbacks on his transit agenda and a marked slip in his influence on council.

“He’s kind of on the comeback trail,” said Lorne Bozinoff, president of Forum Research.

Mr. Bozinoff said that the mayor’s difficulties with council could actually help him in the next election, since they will allow Mr. Ford to present himself as an underdog to voters and lay blame on an intransigent council for stifling his reform plans.

The poll suggests Toronto residents support several notable aspects on Mr. Ford’s agenda, including his push for subways over light rail transit and his desire to privatize cleaning services at municipal buildings.

On transit, about 60 per cent of those polled said they favour a subway-based transit plan to light rail, with higher levels of support for subways outside of the downtown core.

“He’s going to have a lot of issues I think he can run on [in an election],” Mr. Bozinoff said. “Saying, ‘Look, I want to build the subway, I wanted more outsourcing, I want to get rid of the land transfer tax... and I couldn’t because of council.’ That’s ideal to run on.”

Mr. Bozinoff said the heightened approval numbers likely reflect several big wins by Mr. Ford during recent months, including his success at winning labour peace this spring after a series of hardball negotiations with city workers.

And the mayor’s decision to again shun the city’s Pride Parade is unlikely to come at a significant political cost, the poll suggests. Although 44 per cent of those surveyed believe Mr. Ford should attend the event, another 25 per cent said he shouldn’t and 29 per cent said the choice should be his.

The automated telephone poll survey of 812 adult Toronto residents was conducted on April 18 and is considered accurate within plus or minus 3.4 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...fords-approval-rating-up-poll/article2408791/
Poll Questions Part 1:

Do you want lower taxes: YES
Do you want better services: YES
Do you want others to pay for your services: YES
Would you like to see lower congestion on our roads: YES
Do you want a subway: YES
Do you want to scrap the Land Transfer Tax: YES
Do you want to see poor people clogging up our city: NO
Do you want to see gay people parading around our city: NO
Do you want people other than yourself to earn a living wage: NO

Poll Questions Part 2:

Do you want lower taxes for others than yourself: NO
Are you willing to pay for better services: NO
Do you want to pay for your services: NO
Should others pay for your services: YES
Would you pay for lower congestion on our roads: NO
Should others pay for lower congestion on our roads: YES
Do you want to pay for a subway: NO
Should others pay for your subway: YES
Do you want to scrap the Land Transfer Tax: YES
Have you ever paid the LTT: NO
Should poor people be segregated from you: YES
Should gay people be segregated from you: YES
Are you wlling to support the taxpayer other than yourself: NO
Are you just plain stupid: YES
Are you full of spite and hate: YES
Is Rob Ford a reflection of you: YES
 
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Polaris

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2007
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Are you just plain stupid: YES
Are you full of spite and hate: YES
Damn. Did not know posting an article from the Globe&Mail can lead to so much fun. Should read the Globe&Mail more often.

Where did you find that poll? Surprised that there was no question like "there should be government jobs for everyone for life."

If Mayor Ford is coming after their behind (not in a gay way), I doubt there will be much public sympathy for fired civil servants.

As taxpayers, what do we owe them? Absolutely nothing.
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
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is.gd
Actually I found that article to be fairly sympathetic to Ford.

"The weight loss campaign, and even Rob Ford’s highly publicized struggles, appear to have succeeded in humanizing him to some voters who are otherwise opposed to him."

I think there probably are a fair number of people in Toronto who have struggled with their weight, whether they succeeded in shedding it or not, and who probably do have some sympathy for what he's trying to do. Doing the weight loss thing in public with a weekly media scrum takes some guts, and actually puts the issue of weight loss into the public spotlight where it should be.

So--idiot mayor, yeah, because of the transit fiasco and the lack of gravy--but Anbarandy, if you were hoping to demonize him with "Chickengate", I guess you failed.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
11,255
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Actually I found that article to be fairly sympathetic to Ford.

"The weight loss campaign, and even Rob Ford’s highly publicized struggles, appear to have succeeded in humanizing him to some voters who are otherwise opposed to him."

I think there probably are a fair number of people in Toronto who have struggled with their weight, whether they succeeded in shedding it or not, and who probably do have some sympathy for what he's trying to do. Doing the weight loss thing in public with a weekly media scrum takes some guts, and actually puts the issue of weight loss into the public spotlight where it should be.

So--idiot mayor, yeah, because of the transit fiasco and the lack of gravy--but Anbarandy, if you were hoping to demonize him with "Chickengate", I guess you failed.
When the going get's tough, in this case his weight loss, Ford doesn't get going he runs away. Hence, he has run away from his weekly weigh-ins 3 weeks in a row. Let's remember this weekly weigh-in was a Rob Ford production from the git-go. Lights, camera and action. The media glare self-induced and promoted.

We all know that this sorry excuse of a man evades, hides and runs away when the going gets tough. The evidence is there. He does not have a backbone nor a spine. He wilts under scrutiny. Jelly-fish, a blob.

A bunch of noise, fireworks, hoopla, bald-faced statements and pronouncements with no follow through, no dedication, no nose-to-the-grindstone to get the job done and then just suddenly drops-out, disappears, hides and runs away. Sort of reminds of you the kid who dropped out of university. The bellicose councillor who shot off his mouth in chambers and who never produced one damn thing. The mayor who railed against the Gravy Train, then found none or couldn't be bothered. The loudmouth 'subways, subways, subways' snakeoil salesman who spouted off about 'subways' and did absolute zero, nada, nothing to give us subways.

The lazy boy/man-child who does not have the character to back up his desires with actual dedication, presevernce and work ethic. This is what his whole 'Cut the Waist' fisaco personifies about the character of our man-child failure of a mayor.

He has got to be consuming a ton of calories to maintain his weight above 300 pounds. How difficult could it possibly be to reduce his calorie intake to a more reasonable level? How difficult would it be to enage in a some sort of exercise regimen? Diet and exercise is the key. How difficult would be to hire a fitness coach or follow a fitness program? These are not diffuclt things to arrange. It just takes desire, character and some fortitude.

Mayor Miller did and Mike Del Grande is currently doing so. There were/was no hoopla nor media circus, just quiet desire, dedication and above all else character to see it through.

We're talking about 300 plus pounds of gutless, pampered baby fat.
 
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Jennifer_

New member
I don't care that Rob ford is fat, I care he's rightwing and incompetetant. Everytime those of us that don't like him take a cheap shot at his weight we remove the legitimancy from our genuine grievences. Its mean and it cruel and I hate it.
Attack his tax plan, his transit plan, his waterfront plan, his budget plans, don't go after his diet plans it just cheapens us all on the left.
.... totally-agree
 

wigglee

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2010
10,939
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.... totally-agree
Ford is a leftist's dream come true! A right wing mayor with no brains, charm, tact, charisma or strategy. Love to watch him squirm and sweat !
If someone had made a movie with this script it would be a comedy hit but people would say " it could never really happen ". Too bad Chris Farley is no longer available to play the part ( nor John Candy to play Doug) . The plot continues......!
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
29,415
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Room 112
This,is just fucking stupid, I don't care that Rob ford is fat, I care he's rightwing and incompetetant. Everytime those of us that don't like him take a cheap shot at his weight we remove the legitimancy from our genuine grievences. Its mean and it cruel and I hate it. He's trying to lose weight and yes he stumbled, OMG the mayor's human, most people on a diet do, but you pick yourself up and keep trying and we should be giving him our full support and well wishes in his attempt to lose weight. Just because Ford acts like a douche bag some times, don't make the fat attacks okay.

Attack his tax plan, his transit plan, his waterfront plan, his budget plans, don't go after his diet plans it just cheapens us all on the left.
Unfortunately, the left is becoming more and more like this. They can't have a civil debate about policy (case in point this board) so they take personal cheap shots.
 
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