Vaughan Spa

Any opinions on this one?

babemagnet

Banned
Jul 5, 2011
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Everyone forgets why we have this right: for protection and to protect the people from tyranny. Ask the Jews what happpened when Hitler's SS Police took their guns away from them.
Right. Like having a 9mm tucked into your belt would have saved you if you were a Jew facing the SS. That argument is always trotted out in defense of gun ownership.
Anyway, in the taped phone calls to the cops they asked him if he is following the kid, to which he replies yes, to which they tell him not to do that. They clearly told him to to interfere with the kid.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,488
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I have no idea what you just said here, I can't decide if I agree or disagree......
Here's the Dick and Jane version. Remember it was addressed to boodle's post 14, which predictably dragged the irrelevant topic of gun rights (See 2d Amendment) into this killing.

1. Those rights are thanks to the Supreme Court's interpretations over the years. The Courts are part of the system of laws that's supposed to make the streets safe from those who gun down the unarmed. The 2d Amendment has nothing to do with self-appointed vigilantism.

2. Self-described 'responsible gun-owners' would serve gun-rights better by condemning such morons instead of picking an unnecessary quarrel over gun-rights, and lining up on the killer's side, instead of public safety and civil society. See boodle as an example.

3. Since he brought in D-Day—more irrelevance—he should be aware that we were there too, and were fighting that same enemy for years before those American anti-tyranny gun-owners got around to it, and all without any 2d Amendment rights at all. Y'see our nation is founded on 'peace, order and good government*', and this is Canada, here on TERB.

4. So screw on your thinking cap, leave the simplistic 'saving us from tyranny' crap for the ignorant, and easily led and address the real issue. No one should be gunned down and killed for doing something as innocent and ordinary as going out to buy Skittles.

Sorry, there were some multi-syllable words and subordinate clauses, in the Dick and Jane version.

Anyone who doesn't see that shooting innocent people is something bad, that the killers need to be investigated and charged and the circumstances leading to it need to be fixed is part of the problem.

Fortunately this is a 'you guys' problem. Let's keep it that way.

*Says so in our Constitution.
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
53,768
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Wouldn't the best outcome be if the local police promptly and thoroughly investigated and laid charges in the case of any and all killings?
Which has what to do with "stand your ground?" I'm sure you are not saying that there are never any justified shootings.

Now as to your comments regarding the Sanford Police, it is becoming increasingly obvious that they did a miserable job on this case (such as sending a narcotics detective rather than a homicide detective to lead the investigation).
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
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i had a feeling that his chase of the victim would come into play
Indeed that is what the section you highlighted about "the exchange with the 911 dispatcher is about" they said no need to follow, he followed.

would it also guarantee a 1st degree murder charge ?
It may lead that way - I really don't know enough to say whether if it were my decision I'd charge 1st degree murder. From what we know from the newspapers I think 2nd degree with included manslaughter is probably what will happen. However, it must be added that the police investigation was so poorly done, that it is going to be hard to get a conviction.
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
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4. . . . leave the simplistic 'saving us from tyranny' crap for the ignorant, and easily led and address the real issue. No one should be gunned down and killed for doing something as innocent and ordinary as going out to buy Skittles.
I'm at a bit of a loss as to how people are weaving the Second Amendment, private firearms ownership, and "stand your ground" laws into whether someone can seemingly chase someone down who had committed no crime seemingly use racial epithets in their conversation with police and not be charged.
 

blackrock13

Banned
Jun 6, 2009
40,085
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Since the laws change in Florida, justifiable homicides have doubled in Florida. The only people benefiting here are the Funeral Homes, bad law.
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
53,768
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Since the laws change in Florida, justifiable homicides have doubled in Florida. The only people benefiting here are the Funeral Homes, bad law.
Not really. However, it may need some amending.

You cannot chase someone down and then invoke "stand your ground" that is a fundemental problem with Mr. Zimmerman's argument.

Why should you have to try to retreat from your own house if you don't immediately see a deadly weapon, why should you have to abandon your car when someone is attempting to carjack it?
 

buttercup

Active member
Feb 28, 2005
2,571
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Why should you have to try to retreat from your own house if you don't immediately see a deadly weapon, why should you have to abandon your car when someone is attempting to carjack it?
Because, Mr I'm-so-macho, at the end of the day, fewer innocent people get killed.
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
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Because, Mr I'm-so-macho, at the end of the day, fewer innocent people get killed.
Sorry, although I'm far from shoot first ask questions later, we have a fundamental difference on this point.

The differences become even more profound for those who live where police are twenty minutes away rather than three minutes away.
 

babemagnet

Banned
Jul 5, 2011
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But that was in a Ghetto in the center of Warsaw, do you believe the Polish or French Resistance were "cleared" where they had mobility?
The Polish and French Resistance certainly didn't defeat the Wehrmacht.They didn't liberate their respective countries. Anyway the thread has kind of gone off topic, wouldn't you agree?
 

LKD

Active member
Aug 6, 2006
5,063
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the Sanford police chief needs to be fired permanently, not just "step down temporarily". He can't even distinguish from basic right and wrong. The watchman carried a gun and killed a little kid with skittles on him. Even a 5 year old knows whats wrong here.
 

babemagnet

Banned
Jul 5, 2011
747
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Looks like with the rallies being held, this story isn't going away quietly. I heard the shooter made something like 41 calls to 911 over the past few years. Kind of obsessive.
 

rafterman

A sadder and a wiser man
Feb 15, 2004
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Question? If a black man had shot a "suspicious" white kid in the same circumstances where would this situation be today?
 
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