Ending Violence Against Women: Remembering Ecole Polytechnique

[fuji]

Says you? In pretty much every study of violent crime of any kind that assumption is made. What sort of ludicrous argument do you want to make here, men are very good at using violence against women so exactly that they always kill when they do and never merely seriously injure? That's really what you are having to argue? Really?

I suspect you just don't want to accept the empirical conclusion. You're an angry male who refuses to believe that there are issues in this society that negatively impact women and you will deny fact and logic to persist in your willful blindness.

 

[Aardvark154]

How many people were verbally murdered last year?

That just confuses the issue.

Yes, people should be able to hold their temper, however, many even very good people do not do so very well.

We have a system that says if male literally pushes female with the little finger of their left hand that is domestic violence, however, if female screams at male every belittling, hurtful, harmful remark she can think of for hours, that in almost all jurisdictions is no crime at all. Yes there is an excellent argument that physical is intrinsically different than verbal - but in the real world it is stupid to say that because females are primarly verbal rather than physical that the harm is less.

 

[Tangwhich]

The murder stat is that men murder women three times more often than the other way around. It's then reasonable to assume that the rates of serious assaults is similar to the rates of murders, and so on.

What percentage of murder by a male is committed against another male?
What percentage of murder by women is committed against another woman?

Do those stats mean anything? Do yours? I genuinely don't know and neither do you. Your assumption is an extremely large one.

 

[fuji]

What percentage of murder by a male is committed against another male?

A fair amount, but can generally be put into another useful category, for example, "gang violence". As I stated back in post #5 I think everybody agrees that the ultimate wrong is "violence against people". However, then you get into what are the causes of violence, so that you can try and prevent it, you find there are a few different areas that seem like different approaches are required. Criminal gangs are plainly a major cause of violence, and it's an important category to have policies around as a result. Similarly "violence against women" is a useful category to look at, because there's a lot of related violent acts there, and it's sensible to have policies around that too.

 

[massman]

A lot of great posts Fuji. I think the problem here is that many confuse the notion that " violence against women (because they are women) exists and is a problem" with "violence against women is more important than any ore violence".
Nobody can arge that in our country, as well as significantly more in other cultures, women are victimized for no other reason than they are women. The reason the montreal massacre highlighted this was not that it was at all representtive of the usual violence against women, but it was an extreme example of women being victimized because they were women. Subsequently we also learned that lepine' s upbriniging my have influenced his attitude towards women ( but also we must not forget that he was a complete nutcase on top of it all)

Guys who beat their wives, or rape women because "they asked for it" or who kill their female family members because they have "dishonoured the family" deserve nothing but the harshest and most severe punishment available. This is not to diminish other types of violence, but in these cases, the perpetrator has picked on someone who is in a vulnerable position, and really in essence committed, for lack of a better term, a "hate crime". This type of violence needs to be considered separately.

 

[Rockslinger]

We have a system that says if male literally pushes female with the little finger of their left hand that is domestic violence, however, if female screams at male every belittling, hurtful, harmful remark she can think of for hours, that in almost all jurisdictions is no crime at all. Yes there is an excellent argument that physical is intrinsically different than verbal - but in the real world it is stupid to say that because females are primarly verbal rather than physical that the harm is less.

Exactly my point. How many men have been pushed to murder because of verbal abuse? How many people have committed suicide because of verbal and/or internet abuse?

 

[fuji]

That just confuses the issue.

Yes, people should be able to hold their temper, however, many even very good people do not do so very well.

We have a system that says if male literally pushes female with the little finger of their left hand that is domestic violence, however, if female screams at male every belittling, hurtful, harmful remark she can think of for hours, that in almost all jurisdictions is no crime at all. Yes there is an excellent argument that physical is intrinsically different than verbal - but in the real world it is stupid to say that because females are primarly verbal rather than physical that the harm is less.

I think the argument that "physical is intrinsically different than verbal" is that women are winding up dead and seriously injured. Men are not.

 

[fuji]

How many men have been pushed to murder because of verbal abuse?

None. No-one is ever "pushed to murder". If you murder someone, it's on you.

 

[Rockslinger]

None. No-one is ever "pushed to murder". If you murder someone, it's on you.

Ever heard of "battered wife" syndrome. Quite a few ladies are walking because of that excuse. The abused excuse.

 

[fuji]

Ever heard of "battered wife" syndrome. Quite a few ladies are walking because of that excuse. The abused excuse.

Look up the word "battered".

 

[GG2]

Women are blameless and the stats are not manipulated. Women do not falsely accuse men of rape and assault. Men only assault women, and 99% of women have been assaulted in their lives (99% of men on the other hand have never been assaulted or verbally abused by men or women). Women die by the thousands at the hands of men each year (correction: that is the impression and without knowing the true stats, few would believe otherwise). Men are not murdered by women. Women are not instigators. Domestic violence is rampant and there are no organizations or life lines or support for women tackling such abuse. There are no good available men for these battered women to hook up with and that's why they're doomed for chronic abuse. Skeeter, the pimp who has 8 kids from 7 other women was their only choice. Women never batter, assault, or emasculate men. Women have no advantages over men academically, economically, or socially in today's patriarchal society. Hillary Clinton didn't become President of the US - clearly the glass ceiling still exists for women at all levels of society. Inside every man lurks a Marc Lepine, who was a classic well-to-do young man from a wholesome family who lived out his thirst to put women in their place.

Did I get the narrative right? I think that's a pretty accurate summary of it. I deserve a medal. Nah, just the praise from females 30 years and younger (who've been raised their entire lives on the above notions) will do. But only if that praise translates into access to more (and free) pussy.

 

[Insidious Von]

I put my job on the line a year ago in part due to the bullying my female co-workers were being subjected to. I could not proceed impulsively on the problem unless I had an ironclad case and, unfortunately, two of the women ended up leaving. In the end he was fired and had no recourse to a wrongful dismissal suit. The evidence I would have presented against him would have been damning and no amount of legalese could have saved him.

Sadly misogyny and racism will always exists. For those of you that honestly believe that the system favours females trim your right hand and stop making asshats of yourselves.

 

[fuji]

Did I get the narrative right?

No. The actual narrative is that women are three times more likely to be killed by their spouse, than the other way around. You don't like that stat, and you wish you could ignore it. So in order to ignore it you are going after some ridiculous state some lobbyist presented somewhere at one point. This allows you to ignore the fact that women are three times more likely to be killed by their spouse than the other way around, and that serious assaults against women by their spouses are also a serious problem. However, you can safely ignore the problem by attacking an exaggerated version of it--that enables you to pretend that it doesn't exist. That allows you to live in denial.

Are men ever killed by their spouses? Yes they are. It happens. Only 30% as often as the other way around, but it certainly happens.

Why are women being killed so much more frequently, and what are we going to do about that?

 

[GG2]

No. The actual narrative is that women are three times more likely to be killed by their spouse, than the other way around. You don't like that stat, and you wish you could ignore it. So in order to ignore it you are going after some ridiculous state some lobbyist presented somewhere at one point. This allows you to ignore the fact that women are three times more likely to be killed by their spouse than the other way around, and that serious assaults against women by their spouses are also a serious problem. However, you can safely ignore the problem by attacking an exaggerated version of it--that enables you to pretend that it doesn't exist. That allows you to live in denial.

Are men ever killed by their spouses? Yes they are. It happens. Only 30% as often as the other way around, but it certainly happens.

Why are women being killed so much more frequently, and what are we going to do about that?

Did you miss this inconvenient article?

"Reality check: domestic violence of all kinds is a chronic problem for about 7% of women and men in Canada. The overall homicide rate for women killed as a result of domestic violence is about 40 a year in Canada (about 20 men are killed by their intimate partners). That is a statistically trivial figure." - http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...front-opens-in-the-hate-campaign-against-men/

60 people are murdered each year in domestic violence in Canada - 40 of them being women at the hands of their husbands, and 20 being men at the hands of their wives.

How many people die in car crashes each year in Canada?

 

[cye]

You really don't think much of your self and probably should get help.

 

[GG2]

You really don't think much of your self and probably should get help.

Argumentum ad hominem - (abusive and circumstantial): the fallacy of attacking the character or circumstances of an individual who is advancing a statement or an argument instead of trying to disprove the truth of the statement or the soundness of the argument. Often the argument is characterized simply as a personal attack.

The personal attack is also often termed an "ad personem argument": the statement or argument at issue is dropped from consideration or is ignored, and the locutor's character or circumstances are used to influence opinion.

The fallacy draws its appeal from the technique of "getting personal." The assumption is that what the locutor is saying is entirely or partially dictated by his character or special circumstances and so should be disregarded.

 

[cye]

Not so. Your reasoning is flawed because you are flawed thus I helpfully suggested you get help with your personal issues so you could think more logically.
No charge.
Your Welcome

 

[GG2]

Your flaw is that you're not as clever as you would hope to be, and your aversion to facts.

 

[cye]

I'm clever enough to recognize someone who has never resolved his issues with his mommy.

 

[GG2]

Are you finished? Any other zingers? lol