Why the West is Demonizing Iran

groggy

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You can find the photographs in this PDF:

http://www.jcpa.org/text/ahmadinejad2-words.pdf
That's a long winded propaganda piece which bases almost its entire argument on the one mistranslated speech from 2005. There is no direct threats to Israel shown in any banners or images in that article. I can find more calls for attacking Iran in one issue of Haaretz or the Jerusalem post then you can find in that entire pamphlet.


Try again, please, or cease from your baseless accusations.
 

fuji

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I posted the PDF so you could look at the photographs, Groggy. I don't expect that you can read. You asked for photographs, and there they are.
 

groggy

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I posted the PDF so you could look at the photographs, Groggy. I don't expect that you can read. You asked for photographs, and there they are.
The photos show two banners, neither of which directly threaten Israel.
Same as the mistranslated quote.

And still, that's the best you can do?
I expect you to stop saying 'Iran continually threatens Israel', you have made no case.
 

fuji

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"Israel should be wiped out of the face of the world"

"Death to Israel"

"this cancerous tumor of a state should be removed from the region"

If you don't see those as threats then you are a moron. Oh yeah... you are a moron. I bet you will say those are not threats!
 

groggy

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"Israel should be wiped out of the face of the world"

"Death to Israel"

"this cancerous tumor of a state should be removed from the region"

If you don't see those as threats then you are a moron. Oh yeah... you are a moron. I bet you will say those are not threats!
The first quote is not a direct threat.
The second two, you will have to show evidence that its a government policy, I can find numerous examples of Jews in Israel shouting 'death to arabs', in fact we had a recent discussion about a youtube video of the exact same thing. But never did I suggest that 'death to arabs' is a government policy and a direct threat to all arabs. You have to work a bit harder next time.
So far all you've found is one mistranslated quote and a couple of protesters signs, that's nothing.
You have found nothing to back up your position, so I stand by my statement.
Iran has not threatened Israel.
 

blackrock13

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Jun 6, 2009
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The good news is that no leader in the first world agrees with you.
One of the interesting analysis offerd this past weekend by Bruce Bueno de Mesquita on GPS, was that while Ahmadenijhad and higher leavel theocrats bang heads about power in Iran, the head of the army/military General Jafari(?) will sneak up the middle and is more in favour of developing atomic research for industrial/medical reasons first and foremost, all the benefits of having the technology/threat and none of headaches of developing weapons out front. de Mesquita has a tremendous successful record of predicting events in the middle east, especially in recent years.
 

rld

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Oct 12, 2010
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One of the interesting analysis offerd this past weekend by Bruce Bueno de Mesquita on GPS, was that while Ahmadenijhad and higher leavel theocrats bang heads about power in Iran, the head of the army/military General Jafari(?) will sneak up the middle and is more in favour of developing atomic research for industrial/medical reasons first and foremost, all the benefits of having the technology/threat and none of headaches of developing weapons out front. de Mesquita has a tremendous successful record of predicting events in the middle east, especially in recent years.
People in the military often understand the consequences of war and thus tend to be a little less hawkish. That would be a prudent course for Iran, it will be interesting to see if they follow it.
 

fuji

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The first quote is not a direct threat.
Everybody but you sees it as a threat.

The second two, you will have to show evidence that its a government policy
The fact that it was uttered by the Supreme Dictator of Iran in one of his official pronouncements should be enough to show that it is government policy.

Also note that Iran has not only threatened Israel with words, but also with actions: Iran has shipped arms to Hamas and Hezbollah, and sent soldiers over to train Hamas and Hezbollah. So Iran has backed up its words with actions, it has gone beyond uttering threats, and has actually been acting on those threats.
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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Ok, so the threats don't exist we've now seen.
Next Fuji, why don't you show me evidence of all the weapons Iran has sent to Hamas and Hezbollah, and we'll see how that measures up to the amount of arms Israel sells and who they sell it to. That should be entertaining.
 

blackrock13

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Ok, so the threats don't exist we've now seen.
Next Fuji, why don't you show me evidence of all the weapons Iran has sent to Hamas and Hezbollah, and we'll see how that measures up to the amount of arms Israel sells and who they sell it to. That should be entertaining.
You really are thick. Try just he latest attempt on the M/V Victoria earlier this year. look it up and learn something for a change. So now you're going to say Israel sells more so they're badder, meaner, more awfuller. You are giving the resident man-child a run for his money.
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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You really are thick. Try just he latest attempt on the M/V Victoria earlier this year. look it up and learn something for a change. So now you're going to say Israel sells more so they're badder, meaner, more awfuller. You are giving the resident man-child a run for his money.
Look at these facts.
Iran is an NPT signatory and has not been found to be diverting nuclear material to build a bomb.
Israel is a non-signatory to the NPT, has bombed two other countries for trying their own non-NPT reactors and now is threatening to bomb a third that is party to the treaty.

Iran has not threatened Israel
Israel, like their supporters on this board, threatens Iran pretty much weekly.

Iran has not started a war with anyone in 100 years.
Israel has been occupying and at war since its creation.

Now tell me which is the country that is more dangerous to world peace?
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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Right there you diverged from reality, and are now living on some weird planet with funny coloured air.
I'm still waiting for you to show me the threats.
You haven't found anything yet, other then one mistranslated quote from 6 years ago.
 

DATYdude

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That's not a threat.
That's a declaration that if Israel attacks, they will respond.

Try again please.
I agree it's arguable, the guy merely says that destroying Israel has been Iran's wish for quite a while. So why don't you respond to the rest of my post? It's a pretty decent explanation for why people are demonizing Iran? And I might ask - why are you defending Iran??? (not the country, it's leadership... seems like a fair question.)
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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I agree it's arguable, the guy merely says that destroying Israel has been Iran's wish for quite a while. So why don't you respond to the rest of my post? It's a pretty decent explanation for why people are demonizing Iran? And I might ask - why are you defending Iran??? (not the country, it's leadership... seems like a fair question.)
Personally, I think the Iranian government should be turfed by the people, as they tried to do after the last elections.
But even with that, there is no justification for pulling an Iraq on the country. The chances that Iran, even if it did get the bomb, would attack Israel with its 100-200 bombs and subs capable of launching are between remote and nil. This whole argument isn't about Israel's safety, its about Israel losing its belief that they can and will attack any country they feel like in the middle east. I consider Iraq to have been a crime against humanity that resulted in countless deaths for no true strategic advantage. Iran would be way worse on all levels.

But frankly, I'm getting tired of Fuji's arguments and think I'm taking a break from the politics page for a while.
You just can't argue with someone who will lie after he's admitted something and try to deny he ever said it.
The man offers nothing to back up his opinions and his arguments have no nuance, coherence or basis in reality.
Its time for me to move on.
 

fuji

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I'm still waiting for you to show me the threats.
You've been shown three of them. Quotes and photographs to boot. Official Iranian translations, published on official Iranian websites. Photos of the same quotes plastered on official Iranian government and military buildings.

The only problem here is between your keyboard and your chair.
 

groggy

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Mar 21, 2011
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You've been shown three of them. Quotes and photographs to boot. Official Iranian translations, published on official Iranian websites. Photos of the same quotes plastered on official Iranian government and military buildings.

The only problem here is between your keyboard and your chair.
And none of them were shown to be either threats or official government documents.
Really, for someone who has said Iran 'continually' threatens Israel, you'd think three would have been so easy. As I've said before, I can probably find more in a days worth of looking at the Israeli press, but you've had to scour the net for pro-Israeli propaganda sites for a week or so now to come up with three easily debunked threats.

Anyways, enjoy your propagandizing into the ether, I'm taking a break from these pages for the forseeable future.
Its a waste of my time arguing with you.
 

fuji

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And none of them were shown to be either threats or official government documents.
Statements from official speeches delivered by the Iranian President and statements from official speeches given by the Supreme Dictator are indeed official government statements. And yes, they were threats.
 
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