Intentionally killing civilians is wrong.

[fuji]

Every now and then I feel the need post this:

The intentional murder or mass murder of civilians is an atrocity.

It doesn't matter whether they're people going about their business in a New York office tower or a Japanese one. It doesn't matter whether they have family members in Al Qaeda, or in the US Marines. It makes no difference whether they are Armenian, Kurdish, Palestinian, Jewish, American, or Libyan. No matter whether they are involved in some sort of land dispute, fight over mineral resources, and no matter that they may have politically unpalatable views, intentionally killing civilians is wrong. Torturing them is wrong. Executing them is wrong.

Yes, civilians often die in war. It's unfortunate, and tragic, but we don't have weapons that can zero in on soldiers and leave the civilians alone. Maybe some day. Until then we will have to accept that sometimes civilians die when they are in or around legitimate targets, but we do not have to accept that anybody intentionally targeted them, that someone went out of their way to kill them, or to kill egregiously more of them than was necessary for any legitimate military purpose.

Those who torture, murder, and mass murder civilians should be brought to justice no matter which side they are.

I have absolutely no reservation in saying that those who do not see the murder of civilians as atrocity, as evil, as completely unacceptable behavior are themselves morally bankrupt and reprehensible individuals, the lowest form of life.

 

[rld]

Every now and then I feel the need post this:

The intentional murder or mass murder of civilians is an atrocity.

It doesn't matter whether they're people going about their business in a New York office tower or a Japanese one. It doesn't matter whether they have family members in Al Qaeda, or in the US Marines. It makes no difference whether they are Armenian, Kurdish, Palestinian, Jewish, American, or Libyan. No matter whether they are involved in some sort of land dispute, fight over mineral resources, and no matter that they may have politically unpalatable views, intentionally killing civilians is wrong. Torturing them is wrong. Executing them is wrong.

Yes, civilians often die in war. It's unfortunate, and tragic, but we don't have weapons that can zero in on soldiers and leave the civilians alone. Maybe some day. Until then we will have to accept that sometimes civilians die when they are in or around legitimate targets, but we do not have to accept that anybody intentionally targeted them, that someone went out of their way to kill them, or to kill egregiously more of them than was necessary for any legitimate military purpose.

Those who torture, murder, and mass murder civilians should be brought to justice no matter which side they are.

I have absolutely no reservation in saying that those who do not see the murder of civilians as atrocity, as evil, as completely unacceptable behavior are themselves morally bankrupt and reprehensible individuals, the lowest form of life.

Do you feel better now?

 

[blackrock13]

Do you feel better now?

LMAO!! I saw the title of the thread and knew who started it. Just like you can spot/smell an Gryf' thread. What maroon. Now he's got twice the opportunity to blow smoke up his ass.

 

[wigglee]

sorry about your mother....my drone's camera lens was fogged

 

[Rockslinger]

Oh no, he is on his soapbox again lecturing to the unwashed masses.

 

[fuji]

I already know you are a supporter of terrorism, Rockslinger. As for blackrock, I'm not sure he's smart enough to know what he supports.

 

[Rockslinger]

I already know you are a supporter of terrorism, Rockslinger. As for blackrock, I'm not sure he's smart enough to know what he supports.

I'll say it again. Don't hurt my family and I won't hurt your family. Don't invade my country and I won't bother your family. It's very simple, leave my family and my country alone and we'll get along just fine.

 

[fuji]

I'll say it again. Don't hurt my family and I won't hurt your family. Don't invade my country and I won't bother your family. It's very simple, leave my family and my country alone and we'll get along just fine.

Oh I think I know this quote... is it from Osama bin Laden?

 

[Rockslinger]

LMAO!! I saw the title of the thread and knew who started it. Just like you can spot/smell an Gryf' thread. What maroon. Now he's got twice the opportunity to blow smoke up his ass.

I learned to stay away from Gryfin's threads, I should learn to stay away from Fuji's thread as well. I'm done with this thread.

 

[Aardvark154]

civilians often die in war. It's unfortunate, and tragic, but we don't have weapons that can zero in on soldiers and leave the civilians alone. Maybe some day. Until then we will have to accept that sometimes civilians die when they are in or around legitimate targets.

I have absolutely no reservation in saying that those who do not see the murder of civilians as unacceptable behavior are themselves morally bankrupt.

Now if we could only get you to remember that everytime civilians are killed it does not mean that they were murdered.

 

[rld]

Now if we could only get you to remember that everytime civilians are killed it does not mean that they were murdered.

On a balance of probabilities...

 

[basketcase]

Oh I think I know this quote... is it from Osama bin Laden?

Git to give credit for this line.

 

[mrmike]

I'll say it again. Don't hurt my family and I won't hurt your family. Don't invade my country and I won't bother your family. It's very simple, leave my family and my country alone and we'll get along just fine.

Generally speaking you're correct. The problem is, people can draw the boundaries of "my" any way they choose. A man could beat his kids and say, "how I treat my family is my own business. Don't mess with me and I won't mess with you".

 

[Rockslinger]

Generally speaking you're correct. The problem is, people can draw the boundaries of "my" any way they choose. A man could beat his kids and say, "how I treat my family is my own business. Don't mess with me and I won't mess with you".

The two examples I use are clearly black and white.

1) The English with their puppet Scots brutally invaded Ireland, stole Irish land and starve over 2 million indigenous Irish to death. What would you do if you are Irish? Would you not resist anyway you can?

2) In WW II, Imperial Japan brutally invaded China and other Asian countries and committed mass murder and other atrocities. Again, what would you do if you are the invadee(sp)?

 

[fuji]

Now if we could only get you to remember that everytime civilians are killed it does not mean that they were murdered.

And if we can just get you to remember that just because the attacker was American that doesn't mean they weren't.

 

[fuji]

The two examples I use are clearly black and white.

1) The English with their puppet Scots brutally invaded Ireland, stole Irish land and starve over 2 million indigenous Irish to death. What would you do if you are Irish? Would you not resist anyway you can?

You do sound exactly like Osama bin Laden. That's exactly what he says about Americans/British/Europeans in Arab lands. Pretty similar. It was one of his justifications for 9/11.

As for your question I would not "resist" by killing innocent civilians. First off, killing innocent civilians isn't "resistance". Secondly it's an atrocity. The Irish had a fair number of legitimate grievances, but nothing that would justify bombing bus terminals, airplanes, nightclubs, etc.

Also just as a factual matter, blaming the potato famine on the British is stupid. The British did quite a few injustices to the Irish, but nobody intentionally starved them. The failure of the potato crop wasn't good for anybody--certainly if you were a landlord hoping to get rich off your farms in Ireland the failure of your crop isn't something you hoped for.

2) In WW II, Imperial Japan brutally invaded China and other Asian countries and committed mass murder and other atrocities. Again, what would you do if you are the invadee(sp)?

The Chinese did not retaliate by killing innocent civilians, and neither would I.

 

[mrmike]

I would fight back, but not "any" way. For example, I wouldn't kill the wives and children of invaders, nor would I murder non-combatants in their homeland. I wouldn't torture or massacre helpless prisoners, either.

What about non-black and white examples? If I'm in the FLQ, can I blow up people as I see fit with the message, "don't oppress my nation and I won't oppress yours"? Where would you draw boundaries?

 

[fuji]

I would fight back, but not "any" way. For example, I wouldn't kill the wives and children of invaders, nor would I murder non-combatants in their homeland. I wouldn't torture or massacre helpless prisoners, either.

Yup, you're thinking like a normal person. Terrorists think differently than the rest of us.

 

[basketcase]

The two examples I use are clearly black and white.

1) The English with their puppet Scots brutally invaded Ireland, stole Irish land and starve over 2 million indigenous Irish to death. What would you do if you are Irish? Would you not resist anyway you can?

2) In WW II, Imperial Japan brutally invaded China and other Asian countries and committed mass murder and other atrocities. Again, what would you do if you are the invadee(sp)?

Attack military targets = freedom fighter
Attack civilians = terrorist

Despite your denials, many IRA actions fit the later.

 

[Rockslinger]

Also just as a factual matter, blaming the potato famine on the British is stupid. The British did quite a few injustices to the Irish, but nobody intentionally starved them.

When you (I mean the general you not you personally) invade a country, you are responsible for anything bad that happens in that country. The Brits should have left Ireland alone. The Irish were minding their own business when those bastard Brits showed up.

The Chinese did not retaliate by killing innocent civilians, and neither would I.

The Chinese and other Asians were too busy trying to survive and didn't have the means to strike back at the invading bastards homeland.