Road tolls to pay for subways

[train]

But right now, all three levels of government are in the hole, and there isn't a one that doesn't have plans. I think we should pay for the services we need, especially if the payers have free choice to lessen their costly behaviour. I'm tired of the wishful thinking that says if they cut taxes, then government will shrink. Just name one example; belive me, if it worked we'd all be doing it.

So it would appear that you are a believer in user fees with the assumed proviso that they aren'too onerous.

I agree and applying this logic more universally we should also apply equally modest fees to hospital emerg visits, garbage collection in 905 as well as 416, bicycle lane tolls etc etc

 

[avxl1003]

So it would appear that you are a believer in user fees with the assumed proviso that they aren'too onerous.

I agree and applying this logic more universally we should also apply equally modest fees to hospital emerg visits, garbage collection in 905 as well as 416, bicycle lane tolls etc etc

I can't tell if you were being sarcastic or not.

We do apply the user fees to garbage collection in the 416. If you wish to throw away a lot of garbage then you have to pay for a larger bin. It's been ages since I looked at any of my household bills, but I believe it's a yearly or monthly fee for the bin.

Emerg visits are free and should stay free (for obvious reasons), but we do already charge for ambulance rides do we not? We also charge you for the luxury of a private room if you have to stay in the hospital for the night (or several nights).

Charging tolls for bike lanes is counter-intuitive because it has been established that Toronto would be better off if more people were on bicycles.

Charging a toll to get into Toronto works. And also for Simon.. Torontonians would pay the toll just like everybody else. If we went to Square One in Mississauga, and came back on the toll highway, we'd have to pay just as much as you. We'd likely end up paying less because we didn't make the commute everyday, but that's fair. Those who use the highway the most should pay the most, period.

 

[simon482]

You sound like a child throwing a tantrum here... Just saying

nope just being honest. no interest in the city, so raise what you want. i was just trying to get across that raising taxes or tolls is not the best solution. i am wrong so raise what you want, i don't go there so it won't affect me in the slightest.

 

[avxl1003]

nope just being honest. no interest in the city, so raise what you want. i was just trying to get across that raising taxes or tolls is not the best solution. i am wrong so raise what you want, i don't go there so it won't affect me in the slightest.

You do realize you are not actually talking to the mayor right? This was an opinion poll.

 

[red]

any toll would be taxing on the public

 

[oldjones]

So it would appear that you are a believer in user fees with the assumed proviso that they aren'too onerous.

I agree and applying this logic more universally we should also apply equally modest fees to hospital emerg visits, garbage collection in 905 as well as 416, bicycle lane tolls etc etc

Nothing wrong with th principle of user pay; our whole economic system depends on it. But when we are talking of public goods, like the military, border protection (your view on customs will depend on whether they caught the half dozen cashmere sweaters and the jewlery) police, or fire services, we long ago demonstrated to everyone's satisfaction that we're better financing them by user pay thru taxes tha making the folks with th burning house pony up.

In the public realm we've discovered taxes/user fees as means of behaviour modification, and yup I can see a bike user fee—assessed at licensing time— that is nominal to encourage use, and express[sic] highway tolls that are high enough during 'rush' hour to send people complaining to their bosses for more flex-schedules.

As a general principle I see nothing wrong. But you have to start with the concept of the public good we're trying to acheive: i.e. discourage people from entering an expressway as it approaches its maximum-vehicle-delivery level, so we get more cars where they're going more efficiently and make some money to keep the road repared too.

 

[simon482]

You do realize you are not actually talking to the mayor right? This was an opinion poll.

yup and i gave my opinion that higher taxes and tolls are not the way to go and i got told i was wrong.

 

[avxl1003]

yup and i gave my opinion that higher taxes and tolls are not the way to go and i got told i was wrong.

Stop saying higher taxes. Nobody said anything about higher taxes. A toll is not a tax.

 

[red]

Stop saying higher taxes. Nobody said anything about higher taxes. A toll is not a tax.

its not?

 

[avxl1003]

its not?

No, it's not. You can choose to not pay the toll by not taking the highway. It isn't a tax.

 

[good to go]

That's why they live in the country. Read the posts folks just dont blurt out a thought.

 

[oldjones]

That's why they live in the country. Read the posts folks just dont blurt out a thought.

If they live in the country and stay in the country then they'll never burden the City's roads and streets and will never, ever encounter City tolls. Nor have an preference/opinion that will matter to people who live here.

Or did I miss the part where they welcomed city-slickers and their opinions of how to manage the country?

Why are they muddying the discussion waters without offering useful analysis or thinking, then? If and when we get to a non-TO referendum about TO toling or not tolling, then their opinions/preferences will be relevant. But if their scarce, 'unblurted thoughts' are relevant to discussion they need more content than, 'I'm agin 'em". And equally relevant is their choice only to visit like tourists.

And everybody fleeces tourists. Always have.

 

[basketcase]

I love the view that TTC users should pay their own way but users of the Gardiner and Don Valley get a free ride (so to speak).

Tolls on those two routes would be justified. They exist solely to make travel into and out of the city easier and are payed for (municipal taxes) primarily by people who don't use them every day. I don't favour tolls but could live with them (especially if Toronto taxpayers got a discount so they didn't have to pay twice).

 

[oldjones]

Here's the deal. Those roads at Rush Hour are a fine illustration of the Tragedy of the Commons. Killed by overuse, and the killers are the very people who demand the free right to continue what obviously does not work. If we controlled access so that traffic continued to move (we might have to qualify people as Adequate Drivers first, but bear with me) at theb highway-design speeds, more cars would come off the exit ramps at the far end in a given time than manage to crawl in 'free', polluting, time wasting, bumper-to-bumper traffic. Tolls are a way of accomplishing that.

The oft-heard 'we need at least one more lane' on all those is a bit like looking at the trash strewn picnic-ground and saying. 'wouldn't look so bad if we made the park bigger'. As if no one else was ever gonna come along to behave in as stupidly self-defeating ways as us and our friends.

We've successfully proven we're too stupid to stay away from those hugely expensive parking lots. Tolls may make us wiser consumers of asphalt. I understand the concept of pay-for-use is very fashionable among certain economists and politicians.

 

[simon482]

Stop saying higher taxes. Nobody said anything about higher taxes. A toll is not a tax.

i been saying both taxes and tools or tax/toll. same shit different word.

 

[simon482]

20$ bet if they put a toll on the road and the roads will not get repaired any better than they do now.

 

[FatOne]

i been saying both taxes and tools or tax/toll. same shit different word.

It is more like apples and oranges.

A user fee is not a tax. Even your most hardened anarcho capitalist can tell the difference.

 

[avxl1003]

it is more like apples and oranges.

A user fee is not a tax. Even your most hardened anarcho capitalist can tell the difference.

thank you!!

 

[simon482]

It is more like apples and oranges.

A user fee is not a tax. Even your most hardened anarcho capitalist can tell the difference.

it's close enough that it doesn't matter which you use. yes i know the difference and if you read back i was using both almost every time i said it because i was just talking in generalization.

 

[rhuarc29]

Tell you what, if the government stops taxing me for the construction and maintenance of our roadways and other infrastructure related to vehicular transportation, I'd gladly "start" paying a small amount every time I crank my engine.

If you want "free" subway transport, start lobbying for an embedded municipal tax.