Road tolls to pay for subways
- Thread starter fuji
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I know it's an extreme idea, but Mel Lastman floated this about 10 years ago... what if Toronto was it's own province? We are bigger than many provinces and that way we would have more money for our city without the likes of McGuinty getting his mitts on it. Most major transit and roads in U.S. cities are paid for by the state, the cities are responsible for police, fire, ambulance and some infrastructure. During amalgamation the provincial government (Harris) dumped a shit load of costs on the city based on the premise that downloading would save money. It didn't and now we have to pay for those things on top of everything else. It is why the mayor has to go hat in hand the the Premier every year and ask for some more. I think people dispel the notion of Toronto as a province or "special economic region" out of hand without considering a) what the province provides the city for the portion of our taxes that they take and b) what we can do with that money. Just a thought...
A very good though xssive, but it comes with no extra money, just extra taxing powers such as provincial income tax. We already were given extra taxing powers in TO; the previous administration used them to project balanced budgets into the near future as well as cost and begin construction on a citywide transit network. The present administration cancelled the taxes (inefficiently and unfairly) and the transit network in favour of a more expensive single 'subway' line and forecast a $775million budget shortfall for next year before handing the Police their raises (and far from putting 100 new offoicers on the street as promised now is looking at cutting 500)
On population, making TO or the GTA a province makes sense, but you can't leave the un-urbanized hinterland bereft. Assuming you balance it all out so everyone happy and fairly resourced you still have to face what the Ford Nation hasn't yet. A society as big and complex and dense as ours in TO needs a big, complex infrastructure and services just to be mediocre. That costs real money; you can't find it in the stationery budget. Take the Mayor's services survey; all he sees as possible revenue sources are property taxes and user fees. He's two centuries behind.
Not good enough for mediocre. And I don't want mediocre; I want a city/province I can be proud of, and thrill to live in. I don't think these whining pennypinchers can even imagine such a thing. We don't need to be a province to find people with ideals to elect, but if all we come up with is the smallest of hackneyed business thinking in municipal elections, maybe puffing them up to Premiers and such might awaken them to bigger possibilities.
But I don't really think so; I've been reading Hudak's press y'see. He too thinks you can have 'the best place in the world to live' without paying for it. And car users? Paying for the roads they use? Weclome to Logic Torturing 101.
On population, making TO or the GTA a province makes sense, but you can't leave the un-urbanized hinterland bereft. Assuming you balance it all out so everyone happy and fairly resourced you still have to face what the Ford Nation hasn't yet. A society as big and complex and dense as ours in TO needs a big, complex infrastructure and services just to be mediocre. That costs real money; you can't find it in the stationery budget. Take the Mayor's services survey; all he sees as possible revenue sources are property taxes and user fees. He's two centuries behind.
Not good enough for mediocre. And I don't want mediocre; I want a city/province I can be proud of, and thrill to live in. I don't think these whining pennypinchers can even imagine such a thing. We don't need to be a province to find people with ideals to elect, but if all we come up with is the smallest of hackneyed business thinking in municipal elections, maybe puffing them up to Premiers and such might awaken them to bigger possibilities.
But I don't really think so; I've been reading Hudak's press y'see. He too thinks you can have 'the best place in the world to live' without paying for it. And car users? Paying for the roads they use? Weclome to Logic Torturing 101.
set the roads up like the 407. you get a transponder in your car. soon as you cross the line into the city you get hit with 15$ and that covers you for the month. so basically driving on the city streets or highways of toronto cost the same for everyone. you don't have the transponder fine it takes a pic of your license and you get hit with the same 15$ a month. then the public transit folk can't complain about their cost going up since our cost went up as well. then everyone is unhappy. it also solves the issue of having the new road tax money going to the toll operators and no traffic jams. it also makes the cost of living and/or working in toronto get just a little more stupid and makes the city just that bit more undesirable as a tourist destination.
then we can all start a new thread bitching about the new car/transit tax and think of more stupid ways to solve that that end up costing us more and making living here even more disgusting and expensive than it already is. between tax and cost toronto has to be one of the most expensive places to live in north america and my opinion not really worth it.
then we can all start a new thread bitching about the new car/transit tax and think of more stupid ways to solve that that end up costing us more and making living here even more disgusting and expensive than it already is. between tax and cost toronto has to be one of the most expensive places to live in north america and my opinion not really worth it.
The first road I would put a toll on would be Kingston Road. The next be a main road in Doug Ford`s ward. See how it works out.
Exactly. Let's get some money from the outsiders. They want to work in Toronto but live and pay taxes to another municipality? Well then we should charge them for cloggin up the 401, 400, DVP and Gardiner everyday.
Let me apologize in advance for being a smart ass..
Ever heard of the 407 ETR? Who said anything about toll booths?
yeah fuck everyone that doesn't work where they live and wants a cleaner and better lifestyle. fuck them right in the ass.
maybe a little. just doesn't make sense to punish someone for wanting a nicer house for less money and better quality of life and safety and more safer places for their kids.
It does make sense to punish them when their desire to save money ends up costing Torontonians in the long run. We have smog and traffic congestion to deal with thanks to people looking to save a dime on their property taxes.
If you want to live outside of Toronto and work in Toronto and not have to pay to use our highways, then get on the Go Train (or Go Bus). That's what it's there for.
If you want to sit in your sedan and clog the road all the way to your white picket fence in Oakville, then it's going to cost you to do just that.
This seems so easy to me......
You build the roads...get em up NOW...quick...........
Put a toll on them until they are paid!!
No ..Don't sell to a private consortium.....
Once paid....drop the tolls to a 'nominal rate'...certainly way less than the 407......and use that for upkeep and other projects!
once at a nominal rate...people might actually use it! I know many people who ponder taking the 407...all because of cost. If it was a low fee that people could stomach, more people would use the toll highways...and free up the 401's of the world.
Not only that...lowering tolls on gov't roads, may cause 407 rates to come down as well!!!
You build the roads...get em up NOW...quick...........
Put a toll on them until they are paid!!
No ..Don't sell to a private consortium.....
Once paid....drop the tolls to a 'nominal rate'...certainly way less than the 407......and use that for upkeep and other projects!
once at a nominal rate...people might actually use it! I know many people who ponder taking the 407...all because of cost. If it was a low fee that people could stomach, more people would use the toll highways...and free up the 401's of the world.
Not only that...lowering tolls on gov't roads, may cause 407 rates to come down as well!!!
with an attitude like that why would anyone want to come to toronto. seriously if i had to pay to go to work there or visit there i would never go there. that city just ain't that great and stupidly over priced. just make everyone work where they live and watch toronto fall into a cesspool that no one wants to go to at all ever.
more tax is not the answer to a city and province that are more taxed than any other city and province. it might be the final nail in the coffin though.
The reason why people would still come to Toronto is that they make far more money and benefits working here that in their own city. They should pay for using the infrastructure that gets them here.
