Sexual abuse by priests in the City of Brotherly Love, oh my!

jwmorrice

Gentleman by Profession
Jun 30, 2003
7,133
1
0
In the laboratory.
So much for the assertion that cover-ups of sexual abuse by priests is a thing of the past. I liked the comment "What did the Cardinal know and when did he know it?"

jwm

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/09/us/09priests.html?hp
March 8, 2011
21 Priests Suspended in Philadelphia
By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE


The Archdiocese of Philadelphia announced Tuesday that it had suspended 21 priests from active ministry in connection with accusations that involved sexual abuse or otherwise inappropriate behavior with minors.

The mass suspension was the single-most sweeping in the history of the sexual-abuse scandal in the Roman Catholic Church in the United States, said Terence McKiernan, president of BishopAccountability.org, which archives documents from the abuse scandal in dioceses across the country.

The archdiocese’s action follows a damning grand jury report issued Feb. 10 that accused the archdiocese of a widespread cover-up of predatory priests, stretching over decades, and said that as many as 37 priests remained active in the ministry despite credible accusations against them.

Of those 37 priests, 21 were suspended; three others already had been placed on administrative leave after the grand jury detailed accusations against them. Five others would have been suspended, the church said in a statement, but three are no longer active and two are no longer active in the Philadelphia Archdiocese. The church said that in eight cases, no further investigation was warranted.

The statement said the accusations against the 21 ranged from “sexual abuse of a minor to boundary issues with minors,” but did not describe them further.

Nor did it name the 21 whom it suspended, drawing the fury of groups representing abuse victims. Many parishioners are likely to learn that their priest was accused when he fails to appear for Ash Wednesday services.

The announcement was a major embarrassment for Cardinal Justin Rigali, who, in response to the grand jury report, had initially said there were no priests in active ministry “who have an admitted or established allegation of sexual abuse of a minor against them.”

A few days later, Cardinal Rigali placed three priests on administrative leave. His statement Tuesday did not explain why he had made his initial assurances nor did it say why the priests had not been suspended earlier.

“We may have to be asking, what did the cardinal know and when did he know it?” said Leonard Norman Primiano, a Roman Catholic and chairman of the religious studies department at Cabrini College in nearby Radnor, Pa. He described the mass suspension as “astonishing.”

At a minimum, the scope of the suspensions underscored the grand jury’s contention that the archdiocese had failed to clean house after a grand jury report in 2005 found credible accusations of abuse by 63 priests. And it suggested that potentially, predatory priests had had access to thousands of children for years.

The grand jury report prompted the indictment last month of four priests and a parochial school teacher. They include Msgr. William Lynn, the first senior church official in the United States to face criminal charges of covering up abusive behavior.

Cardinal Rigali, 75, said the suspensions were interim measures, pending fuller investigations. And he apologized for the behavior of abusive priests.

“I am truly sorry for the harm done to the victims of sexual abuse, as well as to the members of our community who suffer as a result of this great evil and crime,” he said. He is expected to address the issue Wednesday in a noon service at the Cathedral Basilica of SS. Peter and Paul. He has scheduled a penitential service for Friday.

Those on leave are not allowed to celebrate Mass publicly, wear collars or hear confessions. They were given a few hours’ notice to leave their parishes before the announcement.

Once the identities of the suspended priests become public, analysts said, there could be a dam-breaking effect as there was in Boston in 2002, when initial reports led to more sexual-abuse claims. Since the grand jury report in Philadelphia, two people have filed civil suits, and Jeff Armstrong, a lawyer representing them, said he had received “dozens” of calls from others who might file.

“We’re approaching this with a new vigor,” Mr. Armstrong said. “Like Boston, this is a watershed moment, where all of a sudden the secrets are no longer kept and permission is given to break the silence to this whole survivors’ community.”

If charges against the priests are upheld, the church could face a payout of millions of dollars in legal settlements. The charges come at a stressful time for the church, with membership and parochial school enrollment declining. The archdiocese announced last week that it was closing seven schools in June; it has already closed more than 40 since 2006.
 

fun-guy

Executive Senior Member
Jun 29, 2005
7,275
3
38
The priests that have been exposed for child sexual abuse are just the tip of the iceberg, we only know what we hear about. I have no doubt there is a much larger number of priests who have not been exposed but will ultimately pay the price when they face their maker. I have lost so much respect and faith in the Catholic religion, actually all religions.
 

rld

New member
Oct 12, 2010
10,664
2
0
Serious question, not meant to be inflammatory.

Why do we hear of this paedophilic homosexual sexual abuse being so disproportionately committed by Catholic Priests?

Why not Muslim clerics? Southern Baptists? Teachers? Ice Cream men?
Also a serious question are the numbers actually disproportionate...or is the reporting so.

If the numbers are disproportionate, I would suggest the celibacy thing would be a significant part of the problem.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
77,043
90,562
113
IMO, guys with normal hetersexual or gay sexuality are not attracted to the priesthood's "celibacy". OTOH, if you are a child-molester who is not interested in an adult sexual relationship, there is plenty of scope and cover for you to diddle kids in the RC church.
 

rld

New member
Oct 12, 2010
10,664
2
0
Of course I don't have any statistics but... It seems that any paedophile arrest would be quite newsworthy. So I assume that we'd hear about them on a fairly regular basis. I would estimate that I hear of a dozen or so every year in my news catchbasin of Toronto.

I hear of plenty of child porn collectors being caught, and only one (from the East Coast?) was a priest (or higher) returning from Thailand IIRC?

But I've never heard of any man of the cloth from other denominations molesting their respective parishoners. Nor any other readily identifiable group.




I would think so to at first glance, but if one were to believe that homosexuality is a natural inclination of homosexuals (ie: not a learned desire, rather that one was born that way) then why are so many finding their way into the Priesthood?

And why the attraction to children?

I'd think that the real problem is deeper. I suspect that the god-like reverence that is bestowed upon Priests gives them a sense of invincibility and that they can do no wrong. The power vested in them by the church itself may be to blame. As the old saying goes, nothing corrupts like absolute power.
Now that you got me thinking about it, it really is a complex problem. I don't have a solution but let me share some initial thoughts.

Firstly, until the last year or so, Roman Catholicism was the largest religious group in the world. So there are bound to be a lot more of them doing anything just on numbers alone.

Secondly, you can't rely on media reports for pedophile numbers. When I used to do criminal law and family law I represented a number of pedophiles, and accused pedophiles and none of the cases ever got any media coverage. Not even in local papers. Same for teachers, I just settled a few cases against a pedo teacher and there was no media coverage at any time. You would be very hard pressed to discover the facts of those cases. In fact it would be close to impossible. And multiple children were victims.

The reporting on this is primarily from first world where reporting and policing is pretty good. We really don't know, other than anecdotal material, about religious pedophilia in other countries with different religions with any degree of certainty.

There are other cases against other religious group leaders for pedo and child porn crimes. Including a number of those groups that have multiple wives. And IIRC a prominent evangelical leader in the US now stands accused rather publicly. There are actually plenty of cases against religious leaders of different faiths.

With so much interest in the area surely there are some real studies or papers on the subject.
 

fun-guy

Executive Senior Member
Jun 29, 2005
7,275
3
38
Let's not put our heads in the sand. We all suspected this in the past but it wasn't out in the media for the public to know like it is today. Put yourself back 40 plus years, for those that are old like me, lol, didn't you always suspect this by the priests? We would hear similar stories, but not in such great numbers, and it was always hard to get facts or to prove anything back then, probably because of the great job the inner circle of priests did to cover up. We just brushed it off and thought the young boys were making it up, we simply ignored it or didn't give it much attention. We also always wondered how priests could go so long without haven't sex, until I caught some priests ushering hookers out the back door of their church residence when I was in my teens, lol, now I know better.

The advancement of media technology and changes in laws to give media more rights has finally exposed them. If you look at some of these media reports you will note that many of these abuses took place many, many years ago.
 

benito

Slightly Nuts
Sep 26, 2001
668
0
0
WNY
With the history of sexual abuse in the catholic church going way back, I would be willing to bet that many catholic priests were abused by catholic priests themselves. In order to become a catholic priest a man would have to have a strong feeling for the church and a respect for its hierarchy. Other religious groups have sexual problems, especially Mormon splinter groups, and thst is because of the power the top guy has over his followers. I had a catholic friend in the 8th grade who told me that when any of the boys confessed to masturbating, the priest would make them come in his private office and masturbate in fromt of him. I didn't believe it at the time, but I believe it now.
 

fun-guy

Executive Senior Member
Jun 29, 2005
7,275
3
38
With the history of sexual abuse in the catholic church going way back, I would be willing to bet that many catholic priests were abused by catholic priests themselves.
You would win that bet hands down.


benito said:
I had a catholic friend in the 8th grade who told me that when any of the boys confessed to masturbating, the priest would make them come in his private office and masturbate in fromt of him. I didn't believe it at the time, but I believe it now.
I've heard that one also, I'm sure we're not talking about the same person, so it's more prevelant than we would think.
 

JustSex

New member
Dec 21, 2010
468
0
0
Firstly, until the last year or so, Roman Catholicism was the largest religious group in the world. So there are bound to be a lot more of them doing anything just on numbers alone.
I respectfully disagree. In North America the combined clergy of the Anglican, Presbyterian, Jewish, etc must equal if not surpass the number of Catholic clergy yet even though there are pedophile cases, they are no way near the proportion of the Catholic church.

My opinion is that the mandated celibacy of the priests encourages the membership of those with abnormal sexual behaviour. That is why it not only flourishes but is covered up by the elders. The fact that the Catholic church is responding only to prevent lawsuits, prosecution, etc. tells me that the response is half-hearted and not sincere.
 

jwmorrice

Gentleman by Profession
Jun 30, 2003
7,133
1
0
In the laboratory.

rld

New member
Oct 12, 2010
10,664
2
0
I respectfully disagree. In North America the combined clergy of the Anglican, Presbyterian, Jewish, etc must equal if not surpass the number of Catholic clergy yet even though there are pedophile cases, they are no way near the proportion of the Catholic church.

My opinion is that the mandated celibacy of the priests encourages the membership of those with abnormal sexual behaviour. That is why it not only flourishes but is covered up by the elders. The fact that the Catholic church is responding only to prevent lawsuits, prosecution, etc. tells me that the response is half-hearted and not sincere.
What data do you have to back up your claim about the number of Catholic clergy pedos versus other religions? Hard numbers would help.

You also have to take into account that fact that different clergy interact very differently with their flock. Rabbis, evangelicals, etc all work differently than priests do.
 

rld

New member
Oct 12, 2010
10,664
2
0
For those who like data:


In a statement read out by Archbishop Silvano Maria Tomasi in September 2009, the Holy See stated "We know now that in the last 50 years somewhere between 1.5% and 5% of the Catholic clergy has been involved in sexual abuse cases", adding that this figure was comparable with that of other groups and denominations.[9] A Perspective on Clergy Sexual Abuse by Dr. Thomas Plante of Stanford University and Santa Clara University states that "approximately 4% of priests during the past half century (and mostly in the 1960s and 1970s) have had a sexual experience with a minor" which "is consistent with male clergy from other religious traditions and is significantly lower than the general adult male population which may double these numbers".[10][11] Additionally, according to Newsweek magazine, the figure in the Catholic Church is similar to that in the rest of the adult population.[12]
 

great bear

The PUNisher
Apr 11, 2004
16,168
54
48
Nice Dens
Is it not probable that a gay man not wanting to "come out" as a gay and under going inner struggles with his sexuality would be attracted to the Catholic Church and its celibate lifestyle? A similar case might be made for Lesbians who are attracted to police work which is dominated by males.
 

JustSex

New member
Dec 21, 2010
468
0
0
What data do you have to back up your claim about the number of Catholic clergy pedos versus other religions? Hard numbers would help.
It was a perception from the overwhelming amount of abuse cases in the Catholic church. It is an interesting article - particularly: 'Another reason is that the church has historically been bad at punishing (or preventing) molesters, so that many cases might come to light when just one priest is finally exposed. A single predator priest with ongoing access to children might be responsible for an immense raft of abuse cases. ' - that might account for my perception.

My opinion on sexual abstinence of priests is still that it is not healthy and certainly deprives the church of valuable devote teachers as a result. - No figures on that either.
 

benito

Slightly Nuts
Sep 26, 2001
668
0
0
WNY
Is it not probable that a gay man not wanting to "come out" as a gay and under going inner struggles with his sexuality would be attracted to the Catholic Church and its celibate lifestyle? A similar case might be made for Lesbians who are attracted to police work which is dominated by males.
Gay does not equal pedophile.
 

rld

New member
Oct 12, 2010
10,664
2
0
It was a perception from the overwhelming amount of abuse cases in the Catholic church. It is an interesting article - particularly: 'Another reason is that the church has historically been bad at punishing (or preventing) molesters, so that many cases might come to light when just one priest is finally exposed. A single predator priest with ongoing access to children might be responsible for an immense raft of abuse cases. ' - that might account for my perception.

My opinion on sexual abstinence of priests is still that it is not healthy and certainly deprives the church of valuable devote teachers as a result. - No figures on that either.
I completely agree with you about abstinence being unwise. I don't think there is a real NT or biblical justification for it either.

In Austria, a very Catholic country, most of the small town priests live with their "housekeepers" and they are basically treated as a couple by the community. Seems to work well.
 
Toronto Escorts