Omar Khadr likely to sue Ottawa for millions for complicity in his torture

[nitecrawler]

Simple resolution....

1) If he is a PoW then detain him for the duration of the conflict and then release him to his 'home'....oh that would be Canada. therefore he is a traitor and should be tried as such

2) If he is not a PoW (was he wearing a recognizable uniform?), then he should be shot as a spy. This simple and fully within the UN rules would have made this whole mess much cleaner.

It is our own naive attempts to exert civilian laws to non-civilian crimes that has the west twisted in notes.

 

[Artofnoise]

Fujiiii

Forget all your legal BS. Answer one question. What was a Canadian citizen doing in Afghanistan fighting for the Taliban? He deserves every day in jail. People like me are tired of far left loons like yourself. If you want to sue, sue Mcquinty the liar for the G20 fiasco.

 

[fuji]

Forget all your legal BS. Answer one question. What was a Canadian citizen doing in Afghanistan fighting for the Taliban? He deserves every day in jail. People like me are tired of far left loons like yourself. If you want to sue, sue Mcquinty the liar for the G20 fiasco.

So you don't care much for the rule of law do you? Canadian values? Nope. Out the window. Let's toss everything this country stands for in the dust bin, just so long as the guys you "know" are bad are in jail.

 

[rld]

Here's a fact -- the court accepted a confession most likely extracted under torture as if it were voluntary.

Here's an interpretation of that fact -- the trial had to be held outside US jurisdiction because any ordinary US judge would have tossed that confession, and without it, the prosecution wouldn't have had a case. We'd be left with conflicting interpretations of photographs, meaning, reasonable doubt.

I think there's pretty good odds that Khadr is actually innocent of the charges, but we'll never know until or unless he actually gets a fair trial.

Actually, the court accepted a plea agreement, which was negotiated with full assistance of counsel, years after the alleged torture took place.

The court did not "accept" the confession you refer to, as no trial ever took place.

You really should learn a little about law if you intend to keep babbling about it.

 

[rld]

There is, however, a reasonable doubt. Last I checked in fair and democratic courts the benefit of the doubt went to the accused. I haven't seen the prosecution prove that he wasn't tortured, and there sure is a hell of a lot of circumstantial evidence indicating that he was.

All of that never happens when an accused pleads guilty. But you know that don't you?

 

[rld]

The defense has to raise a reasonable possibility that their claim is true, they do not have to prove that it's true. At least in free and fair courts that's how it works, apparently not at Gitmo.

As for your claims b) it is a fact that it was the same interrogator at the same location at the same time. The same guy as he was interrogating Khadr on that same posting to that same place was subsequently convicted of torturing a man to death there.

What's even worse is that the prosecution, with the support of the judge, tried to SUPPRESS this information. They sought to prevent Khadr's legal team from learning about it! That in and of itself is tampering with process in illegal ways and raises questions about what ELSE they suppressed that didn't leak out.

This sort of bullshit would NEVER be allowed to happen in an American civilian or military court.

I look forward to your upcoming text book on evidentiary disclosure. I am sure it will be fascinating. Perhaps you should start with a chapter on whether Stinchcomb applies to foreign jurisdictions...

 

[fuji]

Actually, the court accepted a plea agreement

Actually it accepted a confession based on torture as if it were voluntary, and then subsequently used that bogus confession to extort a plea agreement.

which was negotiated with full assistance of counsel, years after the alleged torture took place.

Which was denounced by counsel as a fraud, and was extracted under threat of a conviction based on evidence extracted under torture years earlier.

The court did not "accept" the confession you refer to, as no trial ever took place.

Yes it did, it had already made a ruling that the confession would be allowed before the plea deal was entered.

 

[rld]

You misunderstand the law again. The failure of one suppression motion does not mean the confession would have been used.

But we will never know, because he plead guilty and will now serve his time. A just result.

 

[fuji]

You misunderstand the law again. The failure of one suppression motion does not mean the confession would have been used.

But we will never know, because he plead guilty and will now serve his time. A just result.

You must be a nut. The court conspired with the prosecution to suppress evidence, and then despite the high likelihood that Khadr was tortured, allowed the confession anyway.

There's no justice there, at least not until those responsible for Gitmo are brought to trial.

 

[Aardvark154]

There's no justice there, at least not until those responsible for Gitmo are brought to trial.

If that is your view you might as well say "until Hell freezes over."

 

[rld]

You must be a nut. The court conspired with the prosecution to suppress evidence, and then despite the high likelihood that Khadr was tortured, allowed the confession anyway.

There's no justice there, at least not until those responsible for Gitmo are brought to trial.

Oh...it's a conspiracy now...I get it...

 

[fuji]

Oh...it's a conspiracy now...I get it...

The prosecution, with the support of the court, attempted to with-hold from the defense the information that Khadr's interrogator was a convicted torturer. I'd call that conspiring, yes.

 

[rld]

The prosecution, with the support of the court, attempted to with-hold from the defense the information that Khadr's interrogator was a convicted torturer. I'd call that conspiring, yes.

Better call Skully...I expect cancer man is behind it.

Khadr ended up signing a plea deal while fully represented. IT will stick and he will serve.

I bet you even agree.

 

[fuji]

If that is your view you might as well say "until Hell freezes over."

I believe Hell, Michigan, freezes over pretty solid every single year.

 

[fuji]

Better call Skully...I expect cancer man is behind it.

Nope. More likely the generals who set up the process at Gitmo, who fired judges if they ruled for the defense, made it pretty clear to their appointed judge that the prosecution was going to win, and he was going to do whatever he had to, while playing judge, to make sure that's the outcome.

It's pretty straight forward really, it's not some complicated plan with mysterious motives. The judge was ordered by his superiors to convict. Period.

 

[rld]

Nope. More likely the generals who set up the process at Gitmo, who fired judges if they ruled for the defense, made it pretty clear to their appointed judge that the prosecution was going to win, and he was going to do whatever he had to, while playing judge, to make sure that's the outcome.

It's pretty straight forward really, it's not some complicated plan with mysterious motives. The judge was ordered by his superiors to convict. Period.

Sure speculate all you want. There is no evidence to support your conspiracy theory.

And do you disagree that the plea will stand he will do his time? Or do you think we will see him on the streets early?

 

[fuji]

Sure speculate all you want. There is no evidence to support your conspiracy theory.

No evidence other than the evidence that the prosecution in co-operation with the judge attempted to with-hold information from the defense. No evidence other than that the military fired a judge who ruled in Khadr's favour. No evidence other than that the court ludicrously allowed into evidence a confession plainly tainted by torture.

You're right, no evidence at all....

And do you disagree that the plea will stand he will do his time? Or do you think we will see him on the streets early?

Canada is bound to honour its treaty with the United States, no matter how much contempt we may have for the travesty at Guantanamo. We will hold our noses and honour it, but we will do so in a way that maximizes Khadr's freedom. He will be out walking the streets within a year of arriving in Canada, but subject to probation and other conditions thus technically honouring our treaty with the US.

I also think we should sponsor an inquest into how his rights came to be so violated, and how he wound up trapped in such a horrendously unfair legal process. That won't change his plea--we're bound by treaty to honour it--but it could get pretty uncomfortable for those who perpetrated Guantanamo.

 

[Aardvark154]

I believe Hell, Michigan, freezes over pretty solid every single year.

However, I was referring to the original.

 

[rld]

No evidence other than the evidence that the prosecution in co-operation with the judge attempted to with-hold information from the defense. No evidence other than that the military fired a judge who ruled in Khadr's favour. No evidence other than that the court ludicrously allowed into evidence a confession plainly tainted by torture.

You're right, no evidence at all....



Canada is bound to honour its treaty with the United States, no matter how much contempt we may have for the travesty at Guantanamo. We will hold our noses and honour it, but we will do so in a way that maximizes Khadr's freedom. He will be out walking the streets within a year of arriving in Canada, but subject to probation and other conditions thus technically honouring our treaty with the US.

I also think we should sponsor an inquest into how his rights came to be so violated, and how he wound up trapped in such a horrendously unfair legal process. That won't change his plea--we're bound by treaty to honour it--but it could get pretty uncomfortable for those who perpetrated Guantanamo.

I hate to have to correct you again, but there was no trial so no confession was allowed into evidence.

Do you think there will be an inquest? I don't. Other than some fading whining, I think the Khadr case is pretty much done.

 

[JollyJoe]

This Khadr clown a waste of life. Should have been tarred and feathered when they had the chance.