Korea - Are we going to war?
- Thread starter wet_suit_one
- Start date
None of this has anything to do with US boots on the ground.S Korea does not have nukes because the Americans stop and bribe the South by selling more top of the line conventional weapons to them as compensation.
As mentioned, if and when like you suggest Yankees go home, the South and Japan will become another nuclear armed countries within months, no later than a year. Could be a good thing for the two since they no longer have the Americans putting leashes on their plans to protect themselves.
Not going to be surprised the Iranians would jump for joy since the Americans would be in tough position to explain hypocrisy by defending Israel "ambiguity" on WMD and turning a "blind eye" on the Asians.
China will in turn compel to spend more on WMD and delivery vehicles on top of massive "recalibration" of their outdated arsenals. Do not be surprised they are going to possess the number of nuclear warheads double the ones they have in the arsenals, ready to hit Hawaii at minimum and the America continents if they are forced to.
List your reasons for the US to have boots on the ground, this should be interesting.
OTB
Yep, but that does not mean Japan has no nuclear program already in place.Japans constitution specifically bans nuclear weapons for obvious reasons
In fact the Americans tacitly approve the program and unlike identical one in Taiwan during the 70s, there are no verifiable record to indicate the CIA is active to sabotage the Japanese attempt for this "2nd option".
Like the French, they have robust nuclear reactor technologies that are world class. Companies like Hitachi and Toshiba have top of the line nuclear reactor technologies that rival the French state supported Areva.
Not going to be surprised the average Joes and Janes would think Hitachi and Toshiba are mainly consumer electronics brands instead of top notch infrastructure companies.
The Japanese nuclear technologies are so cutting edge that Toshiba took over has-been competitor like America's Westinghouse on the cheap, while GE and Hitachi have JV for the global markets.
By comparison the outdated, underfunded CANDU products are so not competitive that the Japanese would not touch them with a ten foot pole.
We may be lucky to get a break if either the Russians or the Chinese is willing to buy out CANDU but hey "junky" CANDU is "off limits" like Potash.
Simply put, the Japanese have everything ready and all they need is a catalyst.
Just wait when OTB/Bottie wish ie Yankees come home no matter what becomes a reality.that prohibition will not be changed
Do not be surprised in exchange for America's retreat/go home, first from South Korea and eventually Japan, the Americans would simply "outsource" their AOR/peacetime security burden in the Pacific west of Hawaii to Japan. JASDF will be again known as the Imperial Japanese Armed Force like their grandfathers generation in WWII. Article 9 will then be modified, even scrapped and eventually the nuclear arms should be ready by then. Hell, they might even joint forces with the Koreans to counter the common enemy, the new aggressive, mainly Mandarin speaking mainland Chinese.
LOL, sounds like Americans are getting withdrawal symptoms and jumping up and down to cede the current staying power as the superpower to anybody hostile to America at any min, so long as those people continue to lend the Americans money to spend and leave the latter alone doing self-indulgence.None of this has anything to do with US boots on the ground.
List your reasons for the US to have boots on the ground, this should be interesting.
OTB
BTW, according to your logic, it makes "no sense" to have the US boots on the ground in the Middle East no matter what. Maybe it makes "perfect sense" for the Americans to retreat from the rest of the world, let the undesirable elements to take over and then the Americans would feel better that way when America is even further behind, being taken hostages by the same groups hostile to everything America. It's all about deleveraging and be prudent.
Highly unlikely since the Americans would retaliate by bombing North Korea back to the stone age,
.
Too late. N Korea is already there.
Best response is a well placed cruise missile right on Kim Jong's residence, hopefully with him inside. Do what Reagan did to Kadafy. Guaranteed, that will end the hostilities. The son, or whatever successor will think twice about doing this kind of bullshit anymore.
The N Korean people have suffered enough under this lunatic.
Not quite. North Korea is basically mainland China 40 years or so ago, during the dark days of the cultural revolution.Too late. N Korea is already there.
Pretty much explain why China is always passive on North Korea provocation since that would force them to confront the dark ages, even though privately some count their blessings when they managed to end the madness in the mid 70s.
For the Russians, North Korea is basically Soviet Union in the 30s during the Great Purge and before the Great Patriotic War, aka Soviet involvement in WWII.
LOL. Almost naive. The Kim's are really paranoid and crazy enough to hollow out a handful of mountains indicated below for underground palaces or C3I to withstand Americans and the South relentless and sustainable aerial bombardments. Doubtful they would be crazy enough to be in Pyongyang and yell "hit me" in Korean.Best response is a well placed cruise missile right on Kim Jong's residence, hopefully with him inside. Do what Reagan did to Kadafy. Guaranteed, that will end the hostilities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baekdudaegan
Unless we are talking about tactical nukes to bomb and reduce some of those mountains into rubbles. Otherwise, there's no chance any cruise missiles manufactured by Boeing or Raytheon could do the job.
Maybe MOAB can workout somewhat but I would not count on it since the delivery vehicle must be slow and manned C-130 Hercules.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-43/B_Massive_Ordnance_Air_Blast_bomb
BTW, The Kim's are so paranoid that if I could recall, they never fly for the whole life due to fear of flying and more likely fear of assassination attempt by South Korean hit teams using shoulder launched missiles. Both Kims prefer private armored train to travel abroad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_Presidential_Trains
Not going to be surprised the sons could end up like Uday or Qusay.The son, or whatever successor will think twice about doing this kind of bullshit anymore.
Ditto, and the last thing they want would be the PLA comprising Mandarin Speaking Chinese with Chinese people of Korean descent as spearhead mobilize their hardware to intervene and all of a sudden they got caught in the crossfire between the South Koreans and Americans on one side and the Chinese on the other. That would be a nightmare for everybody.The N Korean people have suffered enough under this lunatic.
With the very significant caveat that: Japan continues to feel that the U.S. Nuclear Umbrella remains a real presence. Even then if North Korea really starts acting nuclear without war erupting, Japan may still feel too much pressure.Japans constitution specifically bans nuclear weapons for obvious reasons , that prohibition will not be changed
The same US Nuclear Umbrella remains a real presence to "protect" the Germans, despite the fact that the Germans would never acknowledge that gracefully like the Japanese. This is understandable since the relationship between Russia and Germany is normalized, even better than ever before.With the very significant caveat that: Japan continues to feel that the U.S. Nuclear Umbrella remains a real presence. Even then if North Korea really starts acting nuclear without war erupting, Japan may still feel to much pressure.
Plus, unlike North Korea, Russia does not need to resort tactic like this to get attention.
Thoese commies are of YOUR kind hinny, you brag how much money YOU make investing/trading with the commies that are gutting the USA. You really are getting good with your use of stream of unconsciousness logic skippy....Interesting to notice you lashing out at one of your kind. Don't you two share one thing in common when it comes to hatred to the USA you two know well?
I don't see that North Korea presents any threat to the US.LOL, sounds like Americans are getting withdrawal symptoms and jumping up and down to cede the current staying power as the superpower to anybody hostile to America at any min, so long as those people continue to lend the Americans money to spend and leave the latter alone doing self-indulgence.
BTW, according to your logic, it makes "no sense" to have the US boots on the ground in the Middle East no matter what. Maybe it makes "perfect sense" for the Americans to retreat from the rest of the world, let the undesirable elements to take over and then the Americans would feel better that way when America is even further behind, being taken hostages by the same groups hostile to everything America. It's all about deleveraging and be prudent.
I don't see that North Korea (or South btw) represents any strategic US interests (like, say Africa).
I notice you didn't answer the simple question, I think we know why.
OTB
Truly you don't? East Asia and Southeast Asia coming 'unglued', Japan and/or South Korea going nuclear, a totaly nuts regime that can strike Alaska and possibly Hawaii. Oh Hell no they don't present any threat to the U.S.I don't see that North Korea presents any threat to the US.
I don't see that North Korea (or South btw) represents any strategic US interests (like, say Africa).OTB
An attack would be quick and brutal. Seoul is mere minutes from the border, by air. Tens of thousands, or more, could die in an hour. These are our allies remember. A first-world country, an ultra-modern city, a rich democracy embroiled in a horrific conflict!! With the two most potent militaries on earth backing opposing sides!!! The world economy would undergo a massive crisis and the political fallout would last decades. Ugly ugly ugly stuff. No winners would emerge.
Thankfully China does not want a war anymore than the US does. But they like having N. Korea as a buffer between them and the West and as a major wildcard in the region that keeps the Yanks dislocated. Hopefully the rotty does not break the leash.
Thankfully China does not want a war anymore than the US does. But they like having N. Korea as a buffer between them and the West and as a major wildcard in the region that keeps the Yanks dislocated. Hopefully the rotty does not break the leash.
If you want to bring North Korea to the bargaining table, begin evacuating Seoul and moving all those civilians to a location out of reach from North artillery.
That would scare the shit out of them, it's the only real card they've got to play.
That would scare the shit out of them, it's the only real card they've got to play.
The problem is as I wrote well above, unfortunately for all of us the North Korean tweeking of the tiger's tail will eventually get out of control.An attack would be quick and brutal. Seoul is mere minutes from the border, by air. Tens of thousands, or more, could die in an hour. These are our allies remember. A first-world country, an ultra-modern city, a rich democracy embroiled in a horrific conflict!! With the two most potent militaries on earth backing opposing sides!!! The world economy would undergo a massive crisis and the political fallout would last decades. Ugly ugly ugly stuff. No winners would emerge.
Thankfully China does not want a war anymore than the US does. But they like having N. Korea as a buffer between them and the West and as a major wildcard in the region that keeps the Yanks dislocated. Hopefully the rotty does not break the leash.
I don't:Truly you don't?
I see no reason for this to happen, we have bases in Japan and the only global Navy in the world... I think you're giving too much credit to US boots on the ground in SK.East Asia and Southeast Asia coming 'unglued'
The US nuclear situation would remain exactly how it is today so I don't see this chaining...., Japan and/or South Korea going nuclear
I seriously doubt this, what I don't doubt is the US ability to strike at will, from Hawaii, Japan, (or MS for that matter) at any time, at any location and to inflict any amount of damage we so desire. As crazy as NK is, they know this too, the boots on the ground only give them an inflated sense of worth and strength., a totaly nuts regime that can strike Alaska and possibly Hawaii.
None at all.Oh Hell no they don't present any threat to the U.S.
OTB
Actually, a far more realistic strategy would be for the US to leave SK, declare our lack of interest in the Korean (from a security perspective) as we are fully supportive and confident in SK's ability to protect itself. That would freak out the North and send the scurrying to the begging table faster than any other course of action.If you want to bring North Korea to the bargaining table, begin evacuating Seoul and moving all those civilians to a location out of reach from North artillery.
That would scare the shit out of them, it's the only real card they've got to play.
We could also let China know that we hold it responsible for the actions of it's rabid dog.
OTB
N. Korea needs aid more than it needs war, and everybody knows it, & its been playing up the provocations over the past few months in an effort to get that aid. They made an announcement regarding a uranium enrichment facility a few days ago that got fairly ho-hum responses; this escapade was another attention-getter & a method to try to involve the US in direct negotiations rather then the usual 6-party talks. Theres also a "face-saving" aspect to this; N. Korea has also made some efforts to "reach out" to the South & the US (along with its provocations), but they felt they weren't getting enough credit for their efforts.
Its nukes and its weirdness are its two biggest bargaining chips, and they know they can't play the nuke chip as anything other than a feign. But then there's the brinksmanship & face-saving, so the enrichment plant feign (which didn't get the response they hoped for) needed to be one-upped.
N & S Korea have fought a few times over the past few years in the area that this most recent incident happened. Like with the S/Korean ship that "mysteriously" sunk a few months back, the South will call for a calm, cool measured response rather than do anything provocative itself.
Its nukes and its weirdness are its two biggest bargaining chips, and they know they can't play the nuke chip as anything other than a feign. But then there's the brinksmanship & face-saving, so the enrichment plant feign (which didn't get the response they hoped for) needed to be one-upped.
N & S Korea have fought a few times over the past few years in the area that this most recent incident happened. Like with the S/Korean ship that "mysteriously" sunk a few months back, the South will call for a calm, cool measured response rather than do anything provocative itself.
Nope, true commies and myself have nothing in common. True commies don`t invest. Other than their own, they just rob everybody else, especially from the rich and spend OPM like drunken sailor.Thoese commies are of YOUR kind hinny,
Based on your mo for years, your seem to act like one of them here but after recalling the following you posted in other thread, I am not so sure since the true "walk the talk", not limo leftie do not like property owners like you.
https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?302044-Own-or-Rent
Happily have owned my homes for over the past 30 yrs and wouldn`t have it any other way.....
LMAO, don`t recall I disclose the exact $$$ I made on those killing trades on companies "gutting" the USA, whatever that is. I do recall I "brag" my biggest loss and "brag" to suggest lock in some profits on precious metals as prudent portfolio management.you brag how much money YOU make investing/trading with the commies that are gutting the USA. You really are getting good with your use of stream of unconsciousness logic skippy....
OTOH you are deluded to believe you are a MESA caliber material and morally superior than those average Joes and Janes who need to entrust their retirement money on investing companies you call "Judas Corporatist" that are "gutting" the USA, or for government workers like your buddies at LE having the Calpers of the world doing the same thing on their behalf.
All sounds like you are bragging you are loaded enough to have wad of cash under the mattress to live comfortably in an essentially zero interest rate environment.
Your a trip hinny. Didn't realize till your delusional post above your Peckr Envy was that pronounced!....All sounds like you are bragging you are loaded enough to have wad of cash under the mattress to live comfortably in an essentially zero interest rate environment.
