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Korea - Are we going to war?

wet_suit_one

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North and South Korea exchange artillery fire
KWANG-TAE KIM
SEOUL, SOUTH KOREA— The Associated Press
Published Tuesday, Nov. 23, 2010 1:29AM EST
Last updated Tuesday, Nov. 23, 2010 7:19AM EST
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North Korea bombarded a South Korean island near their disputed western border with artillery Tuesday, setting buildings ablaze and killing at least two marines after warning the South to halt military drills in the area, South Korean officials said.

South Korea said it returned fire and scrambled fighter jets in response, and said the “inhumane” attack on civilian areas violated the 1953 armistice halting the Korean War. The two sides technically remain at war because a peace treaty was never negotiated.

The skirmish came amid high tension over North Korea's claim that it has a new uranium enrichment facility and just six weeks after North Korean leader Kim Jong-il unveiled his youngest son Kim Jong-un as his heir apparent.

The North's artillery struck the small South Korean-held island of Yeonpyeong, which houses military installations and a small civilian population and which has been the focus of two previous deadly battles between the Koreas.

Two South Korean marines were killed and 16 others wounded, a Joint Chiefs of Staff official said. Island residents were escaping to about 20 shelters in the island while sporadic shelling continued, the military official said.

The firing came amid South Korean military drills in the area. North Korea's military had sent a message to South Korea's armed forces early Tuesday to demand that the drills stop, but the South continued them, another military official said.

During the drills, South Korean marines on the island shot artillery toward southern waters, away from North Korea, the official said.

Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity, citing military rules.

The North's premeditated bombardments struck civilian areas and were “inhumane atrocities,” military official Lee Hong-ki said. There are about 30 small islands around the Yeonpyeong, and tension runs high in the area because of its proximity to North Korea. Yeonpyeong is known for its crab fishing.

After the North's barrages, South Korea responded by firing K-9 155mm self-propelled howitzers, military officials said, but declined to say whether North Korean territory was hit.

North Korea threatened to continue launching strikes against South Korea if it violates their disputed sea border “even 0.001 millimetre.”

North Korea's supreme military command said Tuesday that it would “launch merciless military retaliatory strikes.”

The warning was carried by North Korea's official Korean Central News Agency.

YTN TV said several houses on Yeonpyeong were on fire and that shells were still falling on the island, which is about 120 kilometres west of the coast. The station broadcast pictures of thick columns of black smoke rising from the island, which has a population of 1,200 to 1,300. Screams and chaotic shouts could be heard on the video.

Lee Chun-ok, a 54-year-old island resident, said she was watching TV when she heard sounds of artillery and a wall and door in her home suddenly collapsed.

“I though I would die,” Ms. Lee said from the port city of Incheon, west of Seoul, where she evacuated. “I was really, really terrified, and I'm still terrified.”

Relations between the divided Koreas sank to their lowest point in years after the deadly sinking in March of a South Korean warship near the tense Korean sea border, which killed 46 sailors. Seoul blamed a North Korean torpedo, while Pyongyang has denied any responsibility.

South Korean President Lee Myung-bak ordered officials to “sternly respond” to North Korea's action but also called on officials to make sure that the “situation would not escalate,” according to a presidential official. He asked not to be identified, citing the issue's sensitivity.

Mr. Lee was holding a security meeting in a presidential situation room, the official said.

The United Nations Security Council could hold an emergency meeting in the next day or two over an attack by North Korea on a South Korean island, a French diplomatic source told reporters on Tuesday.

Asked whether the Security council would meet, the source said: “It’s in the works for either today or tomorrow. We are for it and (planning) is ongoing.”

The United States called on North Korea to “halt its belligerent action,” Press Secretary Robert Gibbs said in Washington. He said the United States is “firmly committed” to South Korea's defence, and to the “maintenance of regional peace and stability.”

China, which is the North's economic and political benefactor while maintaining robust commercial ties with the South, called for calm.

“We express our concern over the situation. The situation is to be verified,” Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said at a regularly scheduled media briefing in Beijing. He called on both Koreas without naming them “to do more to contribute to peace and stability on the peninsula.”

In a message to North Korea's armed forces, South Korea's military urged the North to stop provocations and warned of strong measures unless the North stopped, a Joint Chiefs of Staff official said.

The countries' western maritime boundary has long been a flash point between the two Koreas. The North does not recognize the border that was unilaterally drawn by the United Nations at the close of the 1950-53 Korean War.

North and South Korea have fought three bloody skirmishes near the maritime border in recent years, most recently in November 2009. That battle left one North Korean officer dead and three others wounded, according to South Korean officials.

Two deadly clashes have previously erupted around Yeonpyeong. In a gun battle in June 2002, one South Korean warship sank, killing six sailors. The North said it also suffered casualties, but didn't confirm how many. In a 1999 clash, South Korea said several sailors were wounded, and that up to 30 North Koreans died.

In a sign of North Korea's anger over the South Korean drills, North Korea's state news agency said in a dispatch Monday that South Korea was readying war games with the United States for aggressive purposes against North Korea. The dispatch quoted what it said were sympathetic Swiss groups that called the drills “a criminal act of aggression for provoking another Korean war.”

The existence of North Korea's new uranium enrichment facility came to light over the weekend after Pyongyang showed it to a visiting American nuclear scientist, claiming that the highly sophisticated operation had 2,000 completed centrifuges. Top U.S. military officials warn that it could speed the North's ability to make and deliver viable nuclear weapons.

The military tensions between the two Koreas also comes amid a visit to the region by U.S. special envoy on North Korea, Stephen Bosworth. He held talks with South Korean officials Monday and was also scheduled to meet officials in China.

© 2010 CTVglobemedia Publishing Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 

landscaper

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It appears dear leader needs some publicity once again. There never was a peace treaty signed so it could be claimed that it was a continuation of the war..or some other garbage type statement.

It will probably continue until they get stomped on hard, destrying the artillery units that fired would get the message across. As big as North Koreas army actually is unless they have serious support from China they will not attack succsessfully, the equipment is several generations and in some cases is still teh same stuff they used last time. As well the border is much more heavily defended now.
 

Aardvark154

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Unfortunately for all of us the North Korean tweeking of the tiger's tail will eventually get out of control.
 

Mervyn

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Then again, I don't think North Korea has as much support from China as they did in the 50's, only time will tell.
 

hinz

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Then again, I don't think North Korea has as much support from China as they did in the 50's, only time will tell.
+1 and the Chinese Communist "brothers" in Beijing are pretty mad privately to those so called "brothers", who are essentially bunch of neighboring jokers having fixation on heredity. They are pretty much ingrates who owe to their regime survival economically and politically by the Chinese goodwill and yet those North Koreans repeatedly slap and spit on the Chinese faces through these provocations.

In fact the majority of the mainland Chinese believe the North Koreans are fully responsible for starting the Korean War and later on begging a big bail out when the North Koreans got bloodied by the Americans. The Chinese paid a hefty price to rescue those scumbags in terms of 500K+ casualties, including Chairman Mao's eldest son and the lost opportunity to unite China by "liberating" Taiwan.

Having said that, the Chinese are having similar beef to the South Koreans, albeit less violent and more in terms of Sports arena and economy.
 

onthebottom

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I really think the US should pull it's troops out of S Korea and start ignoring the North... they're like a naughty child that acts up to get attention.

OTB
 

Aardvark154

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I really think the US should pull it's troops out of S Korea and start ignoring the North...
The problem with that is that much of the rest of Asia looks upon this as an important sign of whether the U.S. is willing to put its money where its mouth is in terms of security.
 

onthebottom

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The problem with that is that much of the rest of Asia looks upon this as an important sign of whether the U.S. is willing to put its money where its mouth is in terms of security.
I think we should withhold both our money and our mouth in Korea.

OTB
 

hinz

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I really think the US should pull it's troops out of S Korea and start ignoring the North... they're like a naughty child that acts up to get attention.

OTB
The Americans would not and could not pull the troops south of 38th parallel.

They could not pull the troops because believe it or not, the South Koreans plead, even bribe them to stay despite the fact that by now the MIC has already reaped huge profits by arming the South to the teeth and theoretically should be able to stand their grounds on their own.

It turned out the South Koreans had cold turkey back in 2003 when Rummy told then President Roh's defense man that South Korea should be capable to be on their own and thus the number of US troops stationed in South Korea would be cut in half, so that there would be more boots on the ground in Iraq.

You hear that right. This is the same group who is known to be anti-America, militant and hostile to almost anything remotely closed to America on paper. Yet out of the media lens they pick up and live on many of the same vice lifestyle and BS mindset from the Anglo-Saxons Americans. They still need Americans to buy their Hyundai, Samsung, Kia or LG as a hedge after discovering that the mainland Chinese could and equally nasty, if not more compared to the Americans they frequently love to bash like the national pastime.

Strategically, the Korean peninsula is vital to contain now assertive China. Having forward bases in South Korea and a relatively friendly administration over there (President Lee of South Korea is a WASP wannabe), the Americans could be ready to deploy their troops from Japan or Hawaii and put a "chuckhole" on both the Yellow sea and the Bohai area. This is vital to deny the PLAN North Sea fleet and their decrepit SSNs/SSBNs entry to the Pacific for 2nd strike and more importantly having the US Marines and Army within reach to blast the way and put the Chinese capital, Beijing at risk.

BTW, you are correct the North Koreans are trying to extort the Americans by hurting their loaded flesh and blood. The succession issue may just turn out to be a smoke screen and do not be surprised the North is in fact extorting the Americans to pay a king ransom in order to have the Kims defect, allowing the South and the American allies a 2nd front to put the Manchuria within range. Stay tune...
 

bishop123

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Enough is enough. I really hope the States withdraw their troops from S.Korea and let these two duke it out. Then we can see who the dominant Korean is.
 

WoodPeckr

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It appears dear leader needs some publicity once again.
Bingo!
The little nutjob wants attention and figures the USA bogged down and being bled white financially with 2 ongoing BS wars can't afford to start another!....
 

capncrunch

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Enough is enough. I really hope the States withdraw their troops from S.Korea and let these two duke it out. Then we can see who the dominant Korean is.
As tempting as this sounds, it simply wouldn't work. Sooner or later, one of them is going to pull out the proverbial genie in the form of a WMD. Neither side will agree to an end of hostilities until it has used all the resources it has. And there will be no going back.
 

hinz

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Bingo!
The little nutjob wants attention and figures the USA bogged down and being bled white financially with 2 ongoing BS wars can't afford to start another!....
Interesting to notice you lashing out at one of your kind. Don't you two share one thing in common when it comes to hatred to the USA you two know well?
 

onthebottom

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The Americans would not and could not pull the troops south of 38th parallel.

They could not pull the troops because believe it or not, the South Koreans plead, even bribe them to stay despite the fact that by now the MIC has already reaped huge profits by arming the South to the teeth and theoretically should be able to stand their grounds on their own.

It turned out the South Koreans had cold turkey back in 2003 when Rummy told then President Roh's defense man that South Korea should be capable to be on their own and thus the number of US troops stationed in South Korea would be cut in half, so that there would be more boots on the ground in Iraq.

You hear that right. This is the same group who is known to be anti-America, militant and hostile to almost anything remotely closed to America on paper. Yet out of the media lens they pick up and live on many of the same vice lifestyle and BS mindset from the Anglo-Saxons Americans. They still need Americans to buy their Hyundai, Samsung, Kia or LG as a hedge after discovering that the mainland Chinese could and equally nasty, if not more compared to the Americans they frequently love to bash like the national pastime.

Strategically, the Korean peninsula is vital to contain now assertive China. Having forward bases in South Korea and a relatively friendly administration over there (President Lee of South Korea is a WASP wannabe), the Americans could be ready to deploy their troops from Japan or Hawaii and put a "chuckhole" on both the Yellow sea and the Bohai area. This is vital to deny the PLAN North Sea fleet and their decrepit SSNs/SSBNs entry to the Pacific for 2nd strike and more importantly having the US Marines and Army within reach to blast the way and put the Chinese capital, Beijing at risk.

BTW, you are correct the North Koreans are trying to extort the Americans by hurting their loaded flesh and blood. The succession issue may just turn out to be a smoke screen and do not be surprised the North is in fact extorting the Americans to pay a king ransom in order to have the Kims defect, allowing the South and the American allies a 2nd front to put the Manchuria within range. Stay tune...
I think the US could easily pull it's troops from South Korea, send them home and let the bases in Japan cover Asia.

I don't think 35K troops in South Korea has any effect on our relations with China....

Yankees come home.

OTB
 

hinz

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As tempting as this sounds, it simply wouldn't work. Sooner or later, one of them is going to pull out the proverbial genie in the form of a WMD. Neither side will agree to an end of hostilities until it has used all the resources it has. And there will be no going back.
Highly unlikely since the Americans would retaliate by bombing North Korea back to the stone age, something the South Koreans would definitely not want to become a reality.

Moreover, it's possible the Chinese themselves would unilaterally try to neutralize the North Korean WMD first before the Americans since the Chinese to this day are really mad the North Koreans manufacture WMD without the Chinese knowledge.

What the North Koreans did is basically starting an arms race on WMD in that neighborhood, forcing the South and the Japanese come "out of the closet" so to speak and put pressure on the Americans to back them up. For the Chinese, the North Koreans are essentially stripping the only "bargaining chip/advantage" the PLA possesses compared to South Korea and Japan, both of which have absolute dominance on quality on weapons and training thanks to Americans investments.
 

hinz

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I think the US could easily pull it's troops from South Korea, send them home and let the bases in Japan cover Asia.

I don't think 35K troops in South Korea has any effect on our relations with China....

Yankees come home.

OTB
LOL, sub-par, short-sighted right wing thinking.

The last thing the heavily in debt Americans want is to strip the "nuclear" option to do arm twisting to China, the single biggest foreign American debts holders to do what they want when the Chinese Achilles heels right now is weak military and a handful of laughable naval force to secure their trade links to the world.

QE 2 and subsequent sequels have their limits to help America while destabilizing and flooding the emerging markets with USD without shedding bloods.
 

onthebottom

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LOL, sub-par, short-sighted right wing thinking.

The last thing the heavily in debt Americans want is to strip the "nuclear" option to do arm twisting to China, the single biggest foreign American debts holders to do what they want when the Chinese Achilles heels right now is weak military and a handful of laughable naval force to secure their trade links to the world.

QE 2 and subsequent sequels have their limits to help America while destabilizing and flooding the emerging markets with USD without shedding bloods.
Not at all, there are no nukes in S Korea, get your facts straight.

Yankees come home.

OTB
 

hinz

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Not at all, there are no nukes in S Korea, get your facts straight.

Yankees come home.

OTB
S Korea does not have nukes because the Americans stop and bribe the South by selling more top of the line conventional weapons to them as compensation.

As mentioned, if and when like you suggest Yankees go home, the South and Japan will become another nuclear armed countries within months, no later than a year. Could be a good thing for the two since they no longer have the Americans putting leashes on their plans to protect themselves.

Not going to be surprised the Iranians would jump for joy since the Americans would be in tough position to explain hypocrisy by defending Israel "ambiguity" on WMD and turning a "blind eye" on the Asians.

China will in turn compel to spend more on WMD and delivery vehicles on top of massive "recalibration" of their outdated arsenals. Do not be surprised they are going to possess the number of nuclear warheads double the ones they have in the arsenals, ready to hit Hawaii at minimum and the America continents if they are forced to.
 

landscaper

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Japans constitution specifically bans nuclear weapons for obvious reasons , that prohibition will not be changed
 
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